Jacob Barr (00:00)
and at the very end we'll stay connected after I stop it so we can finish the upload. That's just how this one works. well, welcome to the pro life team podcast. I'm Jacob and I'm here with Kristen and today we're going to get to hear her story, her story of life. ⁓ Kristen, would you give us some background of who you are and then yeah, go ahead and start telling your story.

Christin Rosa (00:05)
Okay. Sure, sounds good.

Sure. Well, I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. So I am Canadian. ⁓ I am the mother of three kids, Thomas and the twins are Nate and Emma. And I'm married to lovely man in Mauricio who's originally from Brazil, but he has been in Canada for a long time. Yeah. And so to tell you my story, ⁓ back in 2016,

my husband and I found out that we weren't expecting. We already had Thomas, our oldest, who was three years old. Anyway, we were really excited. And in August, we found out that we were having twins. So you can imagine that was a bit of a shock. But, you know, obviously we were, you know, once we recovered from the surprise, we were really excited and started preparing for twins. And then in November, I went for my 19 week

ultrasound and we were super excited. We just wanted, you know, we wanted to find out the gender of the babies and we went into that appointment not expecting, you know, anything to be amiss at all. ⁓ But the doctor told us that, so we thought we were having a little boy and a little girl. So we were thrilled and ⁓ then the doctor told us that our little boy

had a congenital condition called ⁓ congenital diaphragmatic hernia or CDH. And so I had never heard of it. ⁓ He didn't give us a lot of detail. He referred us to another clinic the following week where ⁓ I would do a very in-depth ultrasound and we would get more information about the diagnosis. So my husband and I, we kind of just figured, ⁓ it's not gonna be.

anything serious, like I'm sure it's going to be fine. And, you know, we, we, we prayed that week that, you know, God would heal our baby and everything would be okay. And, we went to that appointment the next week. And after that ultrasound, the doctor came into the room and she told us, ⁓ you know, that our son did have CDH. And basically what it is, is, ⁓ he had a very large hole in his diaphragm muscle.

And the diaphragm separates lungs and heart from all the lower organs. And so ⁓ his intestines and part of his liver had migrated up into his chest and they were crowding out his lungs and everything was sort of shifted over. So his, was a right-sided hole. And so his right lung was tiny, like minuscule. And then his left lung.

was only 27 % the size of a regular healthy lung and so with you know this condition at birth he would suffocate he die because he'd be unable unable to breathe and so she explained that to us and she told us you know she gave a long list of all many you know issues he might have if he you know were to survive if they were to treat him

you know, such as asthma and pulmonary, you know, hypertension and all these different things. And basically she gave us about a 25 or gave him a 25 % chance of survival with treatment. And obviously, no hope of survival without it. And so immediately after giving us all this huge load of information, you know, I was feeling just...

Jacob Barr (04:06)
next slide.

Thank

Christin Rosa (04:11)
overwhelmed, just trying to wrap my mind around, you know, this, this diagnosis. She then said to us, the

words I will never forget, she said, so given this condition, you may want to consider having a reduction. And I was like, a reduction? What is she talking about? And then slowly it sort of dawned on me, oh, like,

she's talking about an abortion. She wants us to abort our little boy. ⁓ anyway, I was not expecting that at all. Like in all my imaginings of what we were going to encounter that day, that is the very last thing I expected. ⁓ And she didn't offer anything else. Like she didn't offer treatment. She didn't even mention... ⁓

perinatal hospice, know, pollination, anything like that, just abortion. And I'm very thankful that my husband was there with me because I, again, I was just like trying to like process all this and I didn't know how to respond. ⁓ But my husband, he immediately, he just said, you know, we are people of life and we want you to know, like we know you're talking about abortion and we won't do that. And we want you to...

do what you can to save our son. We're gonna fight for his life. ⁓ And so that was kind of the beginning of our journey with ⁓ prenatal diagnosis. And it was just the start of a fight ⁓ for our son to receive treatment. yeah, so that's kind of like in Canada, our system's a little bit different, the healthcare system. ⁓ Like it's a public healthcare system. ⁓

⁓ We can't just go to a hospital and say, hey, know, our son has CDH, we want you to treat him. ⁓ They had to approve the treatment because they're using taxpayer dollars to cover his care. And so they would never admit this, but I think one of the reasons they didn't want treatment, treat him was just because of the cost, that's part of it. ⁓ And yeah, so that was kind of...

the beginning of everything that we went through. Yeah. ⁓

Jacob Barr (06:40)
Wow. Thank you

so much for, yeah, opening this, well, sharing your story and opening the door so we can see how this journey, the journey you went on. so during this time of, well, surprise when the doctor was promoting reduction, which is not a word I've heard connected to abortion before, but going from two twins to one twin, ⁓

Christin Rosa (07:08)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (07:10)
Where did you see, you know, how, was God supporting or preparing you before that? Or where do you see God's fingerprints, you know, during this time?

Christin Rosa (07:18)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Well, I would say, like beforehand, in terms of this specific diagnosis, I was blindsided. But I would say that God was preparing me my whole life, to be honest. Like, I grew up, you know, I gave my life to Christ as a young child. And I remember at the age of 10, no one told me to read my Bible.

But I wanted to, and I started reading my Bible every day, and I was super devoted, disciplined as a kid. ⁓ so, you know, somewhere along the way, I came across Psalm 139, and I read the verses that we all know so well. you you, I know if I can quote it properly, but you you formed my inner being, you woke me together in my mother's womb, you know, and praised you for being fearfully and wonderfully made.

⁓ Wonderful Are You Works, I know this full well. And so from a very young age, I knew that my life began in the womb. I wouldn't have known the word conception, but I knew that God knew me before I was born. And I had incredible value to Him. Even before, yeah, before my mom and dad ever held me in their arms. And so I guess I kind of grew up, when I was growing up, no one ever used

the word pro-life. didn't, I somehow, don't even know how I learned about abortion because no one talked about it. No one in my home or church or, you know, my friends. it was, yeah, it was, but I just knew, I just knew the Lord, you know, revealed that through his word that life has value. And so when this came along, you know, it was, and thankfully my husband ⁓ was, we were on the same page, right?

And that's another thing about when we received the diagnosis, we had no time to discuss anything with each other, but thankfully, he grew up very much the same way and we both had these strong convictions that no, course, life begins at conception and every unborn child has value because they're made in the image of God. And so that definitely prepared me.

100 % prepared me for this because, you know, they give you this diagnosis and it's very fear based, right? They, you know, they, she offered us no hope and this wasn't the first time, you know, we were offered a reduction, you know, we were offered it at least two more times and they, they, they tell you all the, you know, things that's, you know, your child's gonna have to struggle with like hearing loss and, you know, eyesight issues and.

and all these different things, scoliosis, and it's very much fear-based. And so if we hadn't had this solid foundation of understanding our children's value, every person's value from conception onward, it would have been very easy, I think, to listen to that advice, especially because it was the that was the only messaging that we were hearing.

was to abort him. ⁓ And later on it was to choose palliation and just give birth and then let him pass away without treatment. ⁓ we, yeah, so, yeah, so I'm just really thankful. I'm thankful that the Lord prepared me in that way, you know, through my whole life. ⁓ Yeah, so.

Jacob Barr (11:03)
Yeah,

I'm trying to imagine the, you know, the, you know, the two options or some of the options that you had in front of you. One was to, you know, letting your child, you know, be born and then grieving, you know, the end when that end may be coming very soon. ⁓ and then the other option was to reduce or another word for abortion.

Christin Rosa (11:23)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (11:32)
And,

and then that would have held, a lot of, well, you know, mental baggage, ⁓ guilt. ⁓ it would have been something that would linger where, know, instead of doing all you can, it was, ⁓ making another decision.

Christin Rosa (11:49)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm very, yeah. It's when people choose, like, you know, the situation, they choose to have a reduction or they choose to abort a child with congenital condition. I think for them, I think they think it will be a...

you know, is a solution to a problem, you know, kind of a quick fix. And unfortunately, I think many people don't realize that, yeah, there are lasting, you know, emotional consequences to having a reduction or abortion. You know, they show that women experience more complicated grief.

after aborting a child with a congenital condition than someone who gets birthed to the child ⁓ and then that child passes away, right? ⁓ So in our case, we really felt that our son deserved the chance to actually recover with treatment. ⁓

But the option of palliation really, that was an option. if we hadn't felt so strongly that he should be treated, that would have been, it would have been definitely a choice that would have been ⁓ beautiful in a way, right? Because obviously much more preferable than a reduction because there's beauty and honor in giving birth to your child.

and having the opportunity to meet your child, your child in your arms, love them, you know, for as long as the Lord gives them breath, right? And I've heard stories of families who, you know, that is the choice that they've made, you know, and they rejected the idea of abortion and gave birth to the child. And, you know, it's tragic, but at same time, it is...

It's such an honoring and beautiful thing to do for, to recognize the value of your child, right? That that child deserves to meet their family and be loved. And, you know, even if, even if they are only going to a few hours or a few weeks, right? Their, their life still has purpose and it doesn't make, it's not easy for the family. Of course not. It's challenging and it's heartbreaking.

But ⁓ by far, you you can't even compare that to abortion, ⁓ you know, to eliminating that life before a is born. So, yeah.

Jacob Barr (14:47)
Wow. I want to read Psalms 139-16 as you reflected on it before. I'm going to see if I can add it to the visuals here. yeah, so this is NIV. Your eyes saw my unformed substance. In your book were written every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. Yeah, that's just...

Christin Rosa (14:53)
Thanks.

Jacob Barr (15:17)
Yeah. Would you reflect on that verse some more? know you, quoted it from memory before. I'll put it back up. And would you just like, yeah, as you read this again, would you just reflect your thoughts on it?

Christin Rosa (15:27)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, well, you know God knows. He knows how many he knows How long we're live right and for some of us some of us live till we're a hundred Right and we're blessed with a long life and others, know, our life is very short, you know ⁓ But just because a child says I was only gonna live a day or two Doesn't mean that they their life was any less valuable than that person that lives for a hundred years, right?

Like if God really is our creator and we're made in his image and we're precious in his sight, then the span of our life, it doesn't matter, right? He loves us no matter what, right? He doesn't love us because of the things that we can accomplish. And that's one of the reasons that babies with congenital conditions,

are aborted is because, they're not going to contribute to society, you know, or, oh, we don't want them to suffer, or, you know, but their value is not based, none of our value is based on what we can accomplish, what we can do, right? We are loved simply because we're children of God, we're precious simply because we're children of God. And yeah, and that's, yeah, I don't know, I guess those were my thoughts in that verse, you know.

Jacob Barr (16:52)
Yeah.

When it comes to ⁓ being able to pick a medical doctor or nurse to work with, especially when it comes to pregnancy, how would you describe, you know, how important it is for that doctor to align with your values ⁓ or being able to actually pick a doctor based on the values that that doctor may hold regardless of their ability to practice medicine? How important is their

values to you.

Christin Rosa (17:24)
I think it's incredibly important. And unfortunately, in my ⁓ case, being here in Canada, I had no choice whatsoever. ⁓ No choice. We can choose our own family doctor, right, ⁓ general practitioner. But the moment that my pregnancy was deemed a high risk pregnancy, I was referred to this maternal ⁓ clinic, know, clinic for maternal medicine. And there was a rotation of doctors ⁓ there. And so,

None of them had the same values of unborn life as I did. Not one of them was pro-life. ⁓ And so not one of them supported our choice to give birth to our son. And ⁓ it was extremely difficult and also extremely unjust. mean, our system here in Canada is, has a lot of issues and that is one.

very big issue and I actually spoke to a Christian doctor friend of mine and I just, asked her like, know, do you think you, like could you work in a clinic like that? And she said that she would need, she would need backing, I guess, like legal backing, you know, in order to work there and be pro-life.

So I assume that in America it's very different. You can choose your doctor and that is a huge, ⁓ huge benefit and blessing that you have. ⁓ I very much wish I could have chosen a doctor that aligned with my beliefs.

Jacob Barr (19:04)
Yeah, and it's okay if we don't have all the answers here, but sometimes just identifying a need or a problem slash need can at least provide space for someone who may hear this to find the solution. But yeah, I definitely don't have a solution for this problem slash need in my wheelhouse. What I would like to say though is ⁓ when it comes to the main audience of this ⁓

Christin Rosa (19:24)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (19:34)
This podcast, it's, made up of mostly prankster clinic directors, along with a variety of pro-life leaders. based on your story, your journey, what would you say to them that they might find encouraging or helpful to know?

Christin Rosa (19:35)
Thanks.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I think for them it's just, I'm sure they will come across, you know, women like me, couples, you know, like my husband and I who have experienced a female diagnosis, or we're right in the midst of it. And I would like them to know that, you know, for people going through this, that there's hope. So if they can just offer hope to those clients, right? That...

Abortion is not going to, it's not going to solve the problem. It's just going to compound, you know, long-term problems, emotional, you know.

Anguish that they're going to experience it. That's going to far away actually giving birth to their child and I'm not saying it's easy, especially if you're going to have a child with long-term lifelong, you know ⁓ Issues, know, that's when they're going to need lifelong help it that's that's challenging, but I would say that from what I've seen from the people that I've met and stories I've heard is that

you know, there is such joy in welcoming any child into your family, right? And for me, like the first year was really difficult. There were, we had multiple follow-up appointments. I think I averaged one or two per week. And of course I had, you know, another newborn and a preschooler. It wasn't easy. But I just, for myself, I just told myself, okay, just...

Get through today, just today, right? And then you start again the next day and slowly, bit by bit, you make it through. if, know, for these leaders, they can just offer that hope, it, yes, it's challenging. Yes, it's hard. Yes, you know, there is suffering in life and you wouldn't have chosen this, but you know, put your faith in God, trust in him. He promises to never leave you or forsake you.

One verse I love is Isaiah 41 10, you know, so do not fear for I am with you. Do not be dismayed for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will hold you with my righteous right hand. And that is kind of like a life verse that I go back to time and time again. You know, God is there. He loves me. He's helping me. tells, you know, and the Bible tells us so many times to fear not, you know, do not fear. And I think

You know, we need to grab hold of that. We need to grab hold of the promises of God in Scripture. You know, I had to cling to and I literally did. I had to cling to God and cling to those promises, you know, to Scripture. And so I would encourage, know, encourage your clients, encourage the people who come across going through this to draw near to the Lord, trust in Him, you know. ⁓

Like Proverbs 3, 5, and 6, trust in the Lord with all your heart and be not in your own understanding and all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. God is, he, what I learned like through everything that we went through is that God is big. He is strong. And I always try to remember that God is the creator of this universe. You know, he's mighty and strong. And so if he could create the universe, you know, he can help me with

these challenges I'm going through today, right? And if he can get me through today, then he can get me through tomorrow and the next day and the next, you know, one step at a time. So yeah.

Jacob Barr (23:41)
that's really good. Yeah. And, you know, looking for how, you know, scripture will encourage, ⁓ support or, you know, provide direction, is yeah, spot on. I think a complimentary idea to that would be to seek advice from people in your, you know, people that are experiencing that same, ⁓ localized, you know, problem with trying to find a

Christin Rosa (24:04)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (24:09)
medical professional that would match your values. So maybe going to like pastoral staff or your pastor or your leadership at your church or to a local prankster clinic who would also share your faith and values and ⁓ may have experienced other people seeking help in this same exact scenario because it's a local problem or a local need. And for myself here in the US, I might just

Christin Rosa (24:12)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (24:37)
be able to go pick out my doctor and then figure out how to weigh different ways of picking. I'm ⁓ gonna have unique local problems that I would need to go to my local pastor or my local prankster clinic maybe for direction on. And the same thing would apply there. If you could, yeah, maybe that local pastor's had other people seek advice or people that are listening to God, reading his word, praying, and also helping people regularly are probably the place to

Christin Rosa (24:43)
Mm-hmm.

You hear? Over.

Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Jacob Barr (25:07)
plug in to find really good insights on some of the options of getting onto the right path when it comes to medical, know, not having as much control, but yeah, maybe there's still a way to navigate it.

Christin Rosa (25:07)
Mm-hmm.

Thank

Yes, for sure. Yeah, and in our case, like we were plugged into a really good, you know, Bible-bleeding church. And I think that is so important because, you know, well, and so we were part of this, you know, very strong community, but we were also part of a small group. We met weekly and we prayed together, you know, weekly. I was also part of a mom and taught group.

We were also meeting every week. So everyone around us, knew what we were going through. They knew about our pregnancy. They knew that when our little boy was born, we were going to be going through a really challenging time with this treatment in the hospital. And I'm so thankful for all the people that were supporting us. We were not alone. And of course, my family, my husband's family, we had so many people just praying for us.

throughout the whole ordeal, the pregnancy and then also when our son was in the hospital. And I think, so yes, definitely go to your pastor for support or if there's, know, ⁓ some other leader, you know, in the church that you have, you know, developed a relationship with and you can trust that person and they offer sound biblical advice. ⁓ Definitely, you know, go to that person, but also it's really important to surround yourself with

like-minded believers who will pray for you and encourage you and even offer practical support, you know, ⁓ my later on in my pregnancy. so one of the things for us that was really important was that the babies be born at 38 weeks and not a day sooner. We needed my son Nate's, his lungs to develop as much as possible in utero before being born.

⁓ because that would give me the best chance of survival after birth. And so, of course we had many people praying for us that would make it all the way. ⁓ But also towards the end, was just physically just struggling, know, and my preschooler was a handful. And so ladies in the church actually started bringing me meals even before the babies were born, ⁓ just to take, you know, just a little bit of the stress, know, daily stress off of my shoulders and...

And I'm so appreciative of that. It was incredible to have that community around us supporting us.

Jacob Barr (27:52)
Wow. So what happened next to Nate after, after he was born? you, yeah. What, what was the, where's the rest of the story go?

Christin Rosa (28:00)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so he was ⁓ I gave birth to the twins in the OR and Nate was born first I did not need a c-section so he came just normal birth and he was I actually heard one little cry from him so as he used up the last bit of oxygen from me he actually cried when he was born one little cry and then it disappeared and he was silent and

We wouldn't hear another sound from him for many weeks. ⁓ But the NICU team was there, the OAR, so they kind of whisked him off, ⁓ got him intubated, and ⁓ they attached, I counted from a picture, like there were nine different tubes and wires coming out of him by the time they were done. And it took about almost an hour to get them all kind of hooked up and connected to everything. ⁓ And then they brought him to the NICU. And then Emma was born.

⁓ second and she was from the very beginning perfectly healthy. So Nate spent, so he spent the first day and a half at the hospital where I gave birth and they needed to get him stable enough to make the trip from that hospital to the children's hospital. ⁓ The children's hospital, don't, women don't give birth there so he had to make a short ambulance drive over.

And so, you from the very beginning, we just, my husband, he would send out prayer requests to, you know, our network of people. And I would say, I mean, we had hundreds of people praying for him. So just each step of the way, first prayer, like pray that he survives birth and gets intubated and all that. And the doctor told Murcio, like, you know, he did, like Nathaniel did better than expected. And...

And that was the first of many times we heard the doctor say that he did better than expected. And ⁓ so the next prayer was, okay, let's pray that he stabilized, he stabilized so that we can transfer him to the children. And so once again, people pray and he stabilized, he made the journey. yeah, and so after, so when he was eight days old, Nathaniel had a

major surgery and so they moved you know his intestines and liver back down and the hole in his diaphragm was so large that they actually had to patch it with cortex so they sewed him all up with that patch and the patch is still there it'll be there for his whole life and you know again he did better than expected in the surgery so a few days after the surgery he

He ended up developing an infection. We think it probably started sometime, you know, due to surgery. ⁓ They obviously do their very best to keep everything sterile, but he took a turn for the worse ⁓ after when he was about 10 or 11 days old. And so for a couple of weeks there, he was extremely unstable. And, you know, I...

I was in this dazed sort of space where, and I was just trying to make it through each day, overwhelmed with everything. I didn't really realize how very unwell he was, how critical. I mean, I knew he was unwell, ⁓ we could have lost him. ⁓ again, prayer, lots of prayer. And obviously the staff at the hospital were amazing. At the beginning, he had two full-time nurses looking after him. And during this,

this time of infection, they were working actually more than 12 hour shifts because during, the alarms were sounding every couple minutes. So they'd be rushing in and suctioning fluid from his lungs and this and that. And they were working so hard that they had to do their charting once their shift ended at the end of the 12 hour shift. it was a scary time.

But anyway, you know, the story kind of goes on, just he, he, he recovered and just little by little, he, he got better, you know, God, you know, healing him little by little and slowly his lungs, you know, once the intestines, know, and everything was out and they had that space, they started growing and, you know, little by little, his need for oxygen, you know, decreased and they were able to, you know, wean him off.

all the medications that he was on and at about actually, so my husband's birthday is May 21st. And so we went into the hospital on May 21st and then the nurse, Nathaniel had been in the hospital for two months already. And so the nurse asked us, said, do you notice anything? And we hadn't noticed when we walked in, we, anyway, we saw that he was off of all breathing support and he was breathing on his own.

And so was like the best birthday present my husband ever had. ⁓ And then at that point, it was just trying to feed him and get him to gain some weight. And eventually, at 10 weeks, they actually sent him home with us. And we were very nervous to be taking over all of his care at home. ⁓ He's still on one or two medications and he went home with a feeding tube.

because he was just a little bit weak, so he couldn't quite finish a bottle on his own. But by the end of the week, he was able to take everything, the whole bottle, ⁓ without needing to top it up through the feeding tube, which was great because I was super nervous about having to put in another feeding tube. So I took the one out and that was it. you know, he has just done extremely well, extremely well. All of the, you know, the many, list of things that the doctors told us he might, you know,

have to endure asthma and all these different things. ⁓ He hasn't had any of them. So he's a very, very healthy, energetic, smart little boy. Learning disabilities, that was another thing that they said he might not have. And nope, he's a very academically strong little boy. And ⁓ God just...

completely exceeded our expectations. We had faith that he could heal Nate. knew that he might not. He might choose to say no. But we said, you know what, we're not God, so we're not gonna make that decision ourselves. And that was another part of choosing life for him. It's not our job to decide the outcome of his life. That's God's choice. That's God's ⁓ decision. And God's sovereign. He gets to decide. And so in our case,

You know, we're very thankful Nate did survive and he is very well. It could have gone the other way and we were prepared for that. But I'm just very thankful for what the Lord has done. You know, very thankful.

Jacob Barr (35:21)
Wow, your story

is full of like really practical and relatable ⁓ examples of how prayer is real and faith and just walking with the Lord is just, you know, it's like a really good example of how you, you know, all of these characteristics we hear about in church, I feel like are being applied in your story. And would you share a little bit about your book and, you know,

Christin Rosa (35:42)
That's right.

Jacob Barr (35:49)
you know, and give maybe a good reason for someone to go get it and buy it and and and check it out.

Christin Rosa (35:53)
Mm-hmm.

Sure. Yeah, well, it was December 2020. The twins were still three at the time. I just felt the nudging of the Lord to start writing a book. And things were still kind of crazy in our home with three young children. ⁓ But the Lord, I didn't ask my parents, but the Lord kind of put it on their hearts to ⁓ watch the twins for me once a week.

so that I could work on the book. By this time, Thomas was in full day school. And so that was a huge blessing. I was given the time to write. But I wanted to write this book because ⁓ when I was going through everything we went through, I didn't know anyone else who had been through anything like this. we didn't, I mean, we had support from the church, but I really, I wanted to offer couples hope to know that, you know,

they can put their trust in God with the outcome for, you know, that's the story for their child's life, but also for them as a family. And so my book, you know, I just, I share the story. I share, you know, what God did for us. And I just, try to just speak to the heart of, you know, couples going through this. ⁓

that, yeah, I've said, that God, you can trust in his word, you can trust in his character, you can trust in his faithfulness and goodness. It doesn't mean he's gonna answer yes. It doesn't mean he's going to save your child, or it doesn't mean he's going to prevent you from going through any hardship, but he'll be with you as you go through these storms and go through all these hard times.

you know, he was with us. And yeah, there were many, very many, very difficult days, years of difficulty really, but God's been faithful through it all. And so that's why I wrote the book. And my hope is that as people read it, they'll be encouraged and they're They will, and they'll just be assured to know that their child, their child's life has value no matter what the diagnosis.

you know, that God has a plan and a purpose for that child's life, ⁓ no matter what, you know? And yeah, so I just really hope, my hope throughout just this whole journey of writing and getting the book published is just that people will be encouraged and will put their trust in the Lord, you know? And I think the story, I think it can appeal to people even who haven't gone through this.

⁓ you know, it's because of that story of faith, you know, it's a story of faith filled with fear. And I think it's something, you know, we all have to go through things. We all go through hardships. We, you know, encounter things that are difficult and causes to fear. ⁓ you know, I actually, after the twins were born, they were two years old. I discovered a lump in my arm and I went through cancer when they were two and, and that's another part of my journey, but

You know, like, we always have a choice. You know, are we gonna take things into our own hands or are we gonna trust the Lord through those hard times? yeah. I hope you feel like you're okay.

Jacob Barr (39:33)
Wow. ⁓

I want to put up another verse. want, I want to have, I'll have you read it and then I want you to reflect on it. Cause you were already reflecting on it. So maybe go ahead and just put this one up and does that show up on your screen? All right. Yeah.

Christin Rosa (39:43)
Sure.

It does.

Yeah, Psalm 23 verse four, even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for you are with me, your rod and your staff, they comfort me. You know, it's funny, I've been reflecting on this verse and all of Psalm 23 just in the last week or so. I've been like quoting it to my kids. I love it. You know, I love this song because

Jesus is so good to us, he's our shepherd. If you look at the first verse, that he brings us beside quiet waters and he offers us peace. And then we go through this valley of the shadow of evil, a shadow of death. we're going, he takes us from a place of like quiet and...

green pastures and still waters into these very scary and dark times. And yet he's with us in both, right? Maybe right now you're in one of those peaceful places, but you never know, you don't know what's around the corner. And the Lord might be bringing you through something else. It's not because he doesn't love you. He loves you very much, but maybe he's going to be bringing you into that valley of the shadow of death because he wants to grow you.

And he wants you to grow in your faith and put your trust in him and recognize that he is with you always and he will never leave you or forsake you. Through everything that I've gone through, I'm so, I can say now, it was very difficult and I wouldn't want to go through it again, but I'm so thankful that the Lord brought me through it because I could see, you know, the faithfulness of God. could, you know, experience his

presence in the hard times. You he kept me and my family from drowning, you know. Isaiah 43 talks about like how the Lord is with you, with you through, as you go through the waters and through the fire. And he doesn't say he's gonna, you know, you're gonna bypass that. He's not, he doesn't like pick you up and say, okay, I'm gonna just bring you over the waters, bring you over the fire. No, you're gonna go through it, but I'm with you and I'm protecting you.

So you're not gonna drown and you're not gonna burn. And I found that to be true for my life. yeah. Yeah, that's good.

Jacob Barr (42:17)
Hmm, that's

so good. Yeah, so like I like to reflect on, well, when comes to Psalm 23, I go through it regularly in my mind and I look at the green pastures and the still waters that precede the phrase, who restores my soul. So I look at the green pastures and the still waters as a way of like rebuilding or preparing me for what comes next, which might be he leads us in paths of righteousness.

Christin Rosa (42:37)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (42:47)
for his namesake. And then

there's that journey of going into the dark valley, the scary places, where we're invited to fear, but we're told not to have fear here because it's an invitation by the enemy to fear. And then it changes the tense of the words to, for you are with me. Before that, it was always he restores me or he leads me or he makes me lie down. But in verse four, it gets real.

Christin Rosa (43:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (43:16)
when it comes to

going through that dark valley is when ⁓ it changes from he to ⁓ you are with me. So it turns from like talking about it to actually praying to God or to the Lord. And so because it gets real and we're no longer in the classroom, now we're actually using what we've learned and what we experienced. And then the rod and the staff reflect like direction and discipline.

Christin Rosa (43:27)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jacob Barr (43:46)
the Bible, church community, ⁓ and then that's where we get comforted in those hard times. And it's just such an amazing passage. Like it's so rich with layers of, and just to imagine David as a shepherd who crafted this with God's, know, through his hand, because it's just like, I can't imagine anyone crafting something this amazing.

Christin Rosa (43:53)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jacob Barr (44:14)
without God's direct, you know, it's, it's, it's so divine that it was written through a shepherd. Yeah.

Christin Rosa (44:19)
Yeah, it's amazing.

Yeah, it's amazing. And that's one thing is that God can use anyone, right? He can speak through anyone. And he often chooses those who are weak, right? And insignificant. ⁓ Because...

Jacob Barr (44:25)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. This morning I was trying to imagine like,

how did David even write these things like out in the field? mean, what did he, know, was he like, I can't even imagine like having what it would take to write down these things that he was writing and then have the ability to like put them into a storage, you know, like it just seems remarkable that he actually even wrote them down and then was able to preserve them for them to be able to, you know, to begin passing down and it

Christin Rosa (44:44)
Two. One.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (45:07)
And then for it to be called the word of God, like that's a remarkable part of the story that like, how did that happen? that's yeah.

Christin Rosa (45:12)
I never thought of that before.

That's good questions. Yeah, how? Amazing.

Jacob Barr (45:19)
Going from yeah the

field all the way through like making it to the highest achievement of literature Yeah It's amazing Well, so Kristen, I've really enjoyed your story if you any final words and then we'll close in prayer What are your final words or thoughts ⁓ for those who might be listening?

Christin Rosa (45:27)
Yeah, it's amazing. It is.

Yeah, I would just trust in the Lord. You know, when we go through these hard times, we sometimes think that God, must not be real or he must not be good or he must not love us. But that is actually not true. I think it was Elizabeth Elliott, I read this quote recently, said that God will not ⁓ save you or keep you from anything that will cause you to draw closer to Jesus or to need Jesus.

Kind of that idea, right? And so when you go through a hard time, it's actually a blessing. It's hard to see it at the time. But if it causes you to need Jesus and to cry out to him and draw near to him, it's actually a blessing. And I think God uses things like this sometimes to wake us up to our need for him. And I would say that was true of me. I loved him before, but I was, you know.

caught up with, you know, just things of life, you know, and not bad things. But, but I think my faith had become somewhat loop one and the Lord used this to draw me closer to Him. And so don't lose heart, don't lose hope and trust in the Lord.

Jacob Barr (47:01)
It seems like, I'm trying to imagine like the parallels between, you know, being the mom of Nate and then Psalm 23 where it says, prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. ⁓ I'm just sort of imagining like that table that God has set, you know, he's like catering this table in this place while the enemies might be looking on. ⁓

Christin Rosa (47:10)
Mm-hmm.

Thank

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (47:29)
And because essentially like you had a doctor tell you to reduce, trying to use the most politically correct word for abortion ever. And, and now you can see how God has provided and as if, know, as if he has served you this amazing meal in the midst of, you know, enemies, you know, within eyesight of, you know, watching you being cared for and enjoying your son.

Christin Rosa (47:35)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob Barr (48:01)
and I'm trying to imagine like, would the verse, the part mean? Like, you he anoints your head with oil or in the, the verses, you anoint my head with oil, my cup overflows. Would you reflect on those words? Like how that might, how is anointing, anointing with oil or a cup overflowing reflect, ⁓ your experience as Nate's mom.

Christin Rosa (48:06)
Hmm.

No, no.

Mm-hmm.

I think so. ⁓ It's like you've gone through that deep dark valley, right? And then you come out the other side and you're like, wow, this is amazing. God got me through that scary place like where my life was threatened. In this case, my son's life was threatened, right? And then you come out on the other side and yeah, that's true. that's true.

Jacob Barr (48:44)
Well, your life was threatened too, because you would have had loss. Your life was, I mean, you would have had a

traumatic loss because of your son's life physically being lost.

Christin Rosa (48:55)
That's true. Yeah, you're right. And yeah, so then you come out on the other side and you're like, wow, God got me through, right? ⁓ I'm alive. The enemy did not take my life or, you know, and so I think like the joy I have right now, like that's like, you know, my cup overflows, right? And I wouldn't have had that if we had chosen a reduction, right?

Jacob Barr (49:13)
Yeah.

Christin Rosa (49:19)
we would have, okay, we'd have our two kids and we'd be living our life, but there would always be that, you know, that what if or that regret, you know, or sadness hanging over ⁓ us as a family, you know, or as a couple. And, but that is not the case for us. Our, my cup literally is overflowing. Like God has done this beautiful thing and he just continues to life. Life continues. It's not like, you know, it's perfect. ⁓

We have our daily challenges and Nate, he's a great kid, but you know, he's a normal kid. we our challenges, right? But we can always like just look back at what God did and say, thank you. Thank you, God.

Jacob Barr (50:05)
Yeah. Well, I'll should finish up the Psalm here because the last

one says, yeah, yeah. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life and I will, shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever. So it's like that goodness and mercy, I think you just described, you know, right there with you, you know, the goodness I just heard and then also the mercy I just heard. So, well, it's a good reflection of the whole Psalm. Yeah.

Christin Rosa (50:17)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yes. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.

Yeah.

Jacob Barr (50:34)
Well,

Kristen, would you close this, close in this podcast with a prayer with the expectation that those who are listening will probably join in.

Christin Rosa (50:40)
Mm-hmm.

Sure. Yeah. Dear Lord, we just thank you so much. Thank you for this time that we've had. And thank you, Lord, that you are, you're so strong and you're worthy to be praised. And thank you, God, that you help us go through these hard times and that these things we go through, they're not a surprise to you. And, you know, I thank you that you use them for good in our lives. You use them to strengthen us and draw us nearer to you.

And I just pray for anyone who is listening to this right now, is experiencing a prenatal diagnosis or something else, cancer, relational issues, whatever it is, that you would meet them where they're at, that they would focus on you, that they would bring their requests to you, that you would fill them with the peace that surpasses all understanding. We just love you and thank you. Jesus, anything.

Jacob Barr (51:38)
Amen. I'm gonna stop it there. ⁓