Jacob Barr (00:00)
And, and it's a Stacy Womack, Womack, Womack. Okay. That sounds good. And then the name of their organization that you're with, is it abuse recovery or what was it called?

Stacey Womack (00:06)
WOMACK

Abuse

Recovery Ministry and Services or ARMS for short. If you want me to say the name, can say the name. can just say ARMS and I can say the name. But Abuse Recovery Ministry Services.

Jacob Barr (00:22)
Okay.

abuse recovery.

Okay. I can do that. All right. Awesome. Well, let's go ahead and get started. And then I'll learn about all about arms in the podcast. ⁓ Welcome to the pro life team podcast. I'm Jacob and I'm here with Stacy. And today we're going to learn about abuse recovery or recovery help for those who have experienced abuse. ⁓ Stacy, would you tell us a little bit about your background and about your organization arms?

Stacey Womack (00:39)
Yeah.

Sure. ⁓ So again, my name is Stacey Womack and I'm the founder and executive director of Abuse Recovery Ministering Services. The short name is ARMS, obviously easier to say. I've been doing this work for almost 28 years. I was raised in the church. My father's a pastor ⁓ and I am not a survivor of abuse. This is something that God called me into.

in the midst of me homeschooling my six children many years ago and it has grown to a national and international work that we do especially for women who've experienced abuse or are experiencing abuse. It's translated into six languages. We are currently offering it in six countries as well and it is, we've shared it to over 55,000 women.

So that's kind of, I know that's not really the long version of how I got into this, because it really was a call from God. It wasn't on my radar. It wasn't something I was thinking of. So when God started speaking to me about ministry, He said, Stacey, you don't get to pick the ministry. I'm going to pick it for you. ⁓ And so this was the door He opened. So I walked through it ⁓ knowing very little bit about

abuse and really my only intention was to lead a couple groups of women through their healing process once I figured out how. And that was it. But God had bigger plans so we incorporated and got our non-profit status within three months and the rest has just been God just moving this thing forward and I always say it's God's it's not mine because it wasn't my idea and I'm just kind of along for the ride. So here we are.

Jacob Barr (02:39)
So how does someone participate with those, you know, the women that you're helping or the people that you're helping, is it online or is it in person?

Stacey Womack (02:49)
Yeah, it's in both. So they can either join online ⁓ if we don't have something in the area in person we feel is always best. So if there's something that's local there and we've trained a lot of pregnancy centers to use our materials. So some of them use them right in their pregnancy center. ⁓ But we also have groups outside of that in churches and recovery homes and prisons and ⁓ union gospel rescue missions. ⁓ So.

And what's so great about the program is called Her Journey. It's 15 weeks, but we lead it year round. So the women just call in. They don't have to give us their real name. They just let us know where they're from. We connect them with a group and they can start right then and there. They don't have to wait to week one and there's no cost. So they can step right into it when they need it. And they don't, it's not a process group where everybody talks about all the negative things that have happened in their lives. It's really about hearing God's heart around

What does God have to say about this issue and about their value and how to begin to regain who they are and or maybe for the first time gain this understanding of not just knowing that God loves them and that they have value but believing it. And it's been so amazing to watch Jacob that we have leaders who've led for decades for us because we get to watch these women change right before our very eyes. It's just the most amazing thing.

Jacob Barr (04:15)
So this podcast is for Prancy Clinics and Prancy Clinics are helping women who often, very often would need this. So ⁓ let's say someone's listening, if they're looking to maybe build a local in-person ⁓ support group.

⁓ Or if they have someone who would like to connect virtually, would those scenarios pan out if they would reach out to your group for help?

Stacey Womack (04:49)
So the first thing I always tell the pregnancy centers is that we're here to serve you. So if you just want to send your women to us, that's fine. And you just give them our phone number and they call us and we take it from there. And then they can just join. We just connect them into a group. ⁓ But if you're already in there, the pregnancy centers are already serving these women because we know that 90 % of women walking into these pregnancy centers have or are experiencing abuse.

A lot of people don't understand what to do with that, but believe me, being at conferences like where you and I met, I have so many of these pregnancy center ⁓ women coming forward to me and saying, my gosh, we're dealing with this all the time. We haven't known what to do. And so they go through a virtual training that we have. It's a 13 week training. And the first eight weeks is Zoom with me.

for two hours a week. And then after that, it's five weeks of online education. We use an educational platform. And again, we have 28 years of experience, not just with victim and survivors of abuse, but we also here in our area. And now we're starting to offer a national group for men who use abusive behaviors, who are the offenders. So it's all from a faith standpoint too. That's a program that

people paid to come into and it's a weekly program, it's a long program. But we also work with women who use abusive behaviors. Or we can train a center even to work with that group if they'd like to. So I often ask them, would you be willing to do it in your center and have it be open so that we can send other people from the community to you? Or would you be willing to have one in your center and do one in your church as well? Because there's such a huge need. Jacob, the statistics are one in three women have experienced

abuse in whatever form. ⁓ well, they're talking mostly physical and sexual in that statistic, but we talk about abuse in all its forms. a lot of women don't think they're being abused because they've never been hit, but abuse comes in any form, verbal, psychological, physical, financial, sexual, property, spiritual, and animal, which are the forms that we talk about. And it's really the misuse of abuse means a misuse of.

So anybody can misuse their words or finances or whatever to gain control. And that's really what an abuser does. They're using a pattern of behaviors to gain power and control in an intimate relationship. And so they may be coercing these women into getting abortions, or they may be keeping her pregnant to make her be dependent on him so that they can't leave. So they're in a position of not being able to get out of that situation.

Jacob Barr (07:37)
⁓ So going back to your story of how God called you into this work, ⁓ so what was your interaction with God to hear His voice? Was it through prayer, through people, through the Bible or all of the above or something else?

Stacey Womack (07:57)
I know that God spoke clearly to me in just that quiet, still small voice that he does. It's not always that way, but it was clear. And then I didn't tell anybody for a year and a half. So, but God just kept reaffirming that he had this call, but not telling me what it was going to be. And then I finally went and I told a pastor and he goes, you've known for a year and a half and you haven't done anything. And so I went back to God and said, God, I've known for a year and a half and I haven't done anything. And

God said not yet. So I had some more work I needed to do before I could step into this. And then ⁓ I have a very unique and long story, crazy story of how God actually brought me into this ministry. ⁓ So it's been scary and hard and exciting and wonderful all mixed together. So.

Jacob Barr (08:50)
So when you say long, how long would that be? Do you want to try and share parts of it?

Stacey Womack (08:56)
my gosh, it sounds so crazy, Jacob. I don't share it very often. So after seeing God for two years, and there's a lot of backstory and going to a conference, it was the first time I'd ever gone anywhere. It was our denominational conference for, it's an international conference for pastors, missionaries, and evangelists, none of which I was.

I was just a mom. And God told me to go to this and I had never flown before. Anyways, during that conference, God continued to confirm this call in my life. So a bit after that in 1997 was when this happened and he had, God had told me that 1997 was my year of release and I had no idea what that meant. And that's, that's when I found out about this conference, I thought it was for women. So that's what I went to my pastor and asked. And they said, Oh, it's not for women.

It's for evangelists, pastors, missionaries. So I thought I heard God wrong. I went home. A few days later, I got a magazine from my denomination and on the front of it, it said 1997, the year of release. And it was the title of their conference. And so after going to the conference, a few months later, God woke me up in the middle of night and he told me, he asked me to review with him everything he'd been telling me. And then I said for the millionth time, what do you want me to do? And God told me.

I want you to enter a pageant for married women." Which was crazy. I didn't even know if they had pageants for married women. And I would have thought it was a nightmare, except for the fact that God's presence was so strong. So I got up the next morning, being the chicken I am, I knew if I didn't do something right away, I wouldn't do something at all. So I went to my church and we had had a former Miss America speak at one of our women's retreats. And they gave me her address and they said, this is her old address. We don't know where she lives. I wrote to her.

telling her I wasn't a crazy woman. This is what God told me and I don't even know where to begin. And then I felt foolish for sending it. I thought I'm so glad I'm never gonna have to meet this woman. But I promised God that if in three weeks I got something from him or from her that I would take the next steps. And about two and a half weeks later I got a package in the mail and in there was a whole bunch of things. One was a magazine on pageantry. I mean like a book. I mean it's huge.

like a huge magazine and it's a hobby. It's a very expensive hobby and they have all different ages and sizes and women who are deaf. I mean you just think of anything you can. There's just so many pageants out there and I argued with God for a week. That was my first year homeschooling, all six of my kids and I said, I don't want to do this. I'm busy. And I threw it on the floor.

And for a week I did that argument and he said, Stacey, you promised me that if you got something in three weeks, you'd take the next step. So I finally sat down and I wrote to three of the pageants and then God told me he wanted me to fast for two weeks. I said, I'll die. But ⁓ after arguing again for a week about that, then I came up with the liquid fast, which is what I did. And the first day of that fast, I got a call from one of the pageants and they said, we've already filled Mrs. Oregon where I'm from.

So I was like, yes, one down, two to go. I don't want to do this crazy thing. And then about a week and a half later, I was driving my teens to youth group and God began to talk to me about that scripture about selfish ambition. And he said, know, Stacey, a lot of people ask for ministry and then God comes to them and says, hey, we need help.

Well, not God, but somebody in the church comes to him and says, we need help in the nursery. And they go, no, no, I'm sure that's not what God meant for me. And he says, if you do something because it makes you look good or it makes you feel good, that's selfish ambition. And that's when he told me, you don't get to pick the ministry I do. So that day I went home and on the, in the mailbox was a, a magazine, well, not a magazine, just a newsletter from this one pageant that I had written to. And they talked about ministering God, but I didn't, didn't really understand. And I said, okay, God, I'll call them. And so they called me.

before I could call them. And it was a Christian woman who was using the pageant as a fundraiser for her own nonprofit that helped women in abusive situations. And so I understood it wasn't really about the pageant, although I still had to do that. They'd never had a Mrs. Oregon, because it was a New York pageant. I didn't have money to do this. This is how glamorous I am. I sent in my grocery money in faith and became Mrs. Oregon Globe. That was the title, Mrs. Oregon Globe. anyways, was a

Jacob Barr (13:24)
you

Stacey Womack (13:28)
And it was only a few months away. And now she's like, yeah, so now you get on TV and you do radio. I'm like, my gosh, I'm just a mom. I don't know how to do any of these things. But God opened the door to a local TBN station that was in our area at the time. And that was like my first action on October 1st, which is Domestic Violence Awareness Day. So God's perfect timing in all this. The whole month is October is Domestic Violence Awareness Month.

Jacob Barr (13:51)
Wow.

Stacey Womack (13:54)
So I went and did the pageant. I didn't do very well. I had like, I had to ask people to donate so I could do this. So had 40 people give everything from $5 to $50 to frequent flyer miles to this crazy thing I went and did and didn't do well and really bombed in the interview portion of it. And I had been really honest with everybody why I was doing this and I just couldn't get it out there for some reason. And I came back.

from that and I just felt horrible. And I knew like, okay, now I've got to do this thing I said I was going to do. That was all purpose of doing this. But I struggled for a couple of weeks and I asked God, God, what's going on? And he goes, you cared more about what man thought than what I thought. I thought you're right, God. I'm so sorry. And I will make this right any chance I can. So I've had opportunities to speak to secular organizations and

been in multiple councils, domestic violence councils, and all kinds of councils, honestly. Too many to count really right now. But ⁓ that's kind of how God brought me into it. And I really stepped into it, really not knowing more than the average person. It wasn't a part of my life at the time. My only touch with it was my sister had married a pastor who was abusive. But even then, I did not understand. And she really had to like flee on her own without family help. Not that we didn't.

love her and believe in her, but we didn't know what to say. We didn't know what to do. And so that kind of left her unsupported. I'm sorry to say, and that's honestly what happens for most women, especially women in church. So it's been a really growing experience and it's been really an amazing journey. And I'm just as passionate as I am about recovery, as I am about intervention, working with those who use a piece of behaviors.

Because I feel like if all we're doing is catching those who are falling off the cliff, but we're not going up to the cliff and stopping those who doing the pushing, then we're not really ending the problem. So I have four sons, Jacob. When I work with these men, I always think about how would I want my own sons treated. So we hold them accountable and we say hard things, but we do it respectfully. always in all of our programs, reminding all of them that God loves them.

Jacob Barr (16:08)
Hmm.

Stacey Womack (16:19)
that God respects them, that they're important to God, that they have value. All those things go throughout all the programs that we have.

Jacob Barr (16:27)
Wow. that's thank you so much for sharing that story. I know that it's probably hard, but I really appreciate you sharing. Yeah. Well, but again, it's, know, if you look at who you're trying to please, I guess it goes back to that. so, so which Bible passage has given you strength throughout this? Well, throughout this story, throughout this journey, which Bible passage have you been leaning on the most?

Stacey Womack (16:33)
It's embarrassing. ⁓

Since I was age 16, had somebody give me a bunch of verses, somebody who had that gift of knowledge and gave verses and that type of thing, someone my dad knew and who went around and spoke at church as kind of evangelists. And he gave me these, all these passages about how I would always know God's will for my life. I thought it was very boring at the time. So the main one is, know, trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding, but in all your ways acknowledge him and he will direct your steps. And this for me,

My people say, you're really passionate about what you do. And I am, but I'm really passionate about being obedient to God. So from everything from having children, which is, would sound silly if you knew me when I was younger, I didn't even like to babysit. And then God gave me six children and, ⁓ you know, and I wasn't a good student and now I'm homeschooling them. So everything I've done has been like the, the Felicita can found the wise. All of my colleagues in this.

field are licensed counselors or licensed social workers and yet God called me to this work. He called me and I'm a most unlikely person and so I you know I just feel like ⁓ I can honestly say God gets all the glory. This is his ministry and as I was joking this week and I said I probably slowed God down more than helped him sometimes in this ministry because you know we're flawed and yet

Our obedience, our willingness to follow Him is really what matters and that's what we're going to stand before God and give an account for. doesn't matter how many people you touch. It could just be a few, but if you are obedient to God, then you're a success. Because yeah, God doesn't measure success the way we do, but every pregnancy center and our organization as well, we're asked, what's your success rate? How many women are you serving? How many women, you know,

Jacob Barr (18:32)
Hmm. That's true. No, that's good.

Stacey Womack (18:47)
God doesn't see it like that. He's always about leaving the 99 for the one. He's about going across the lake from a very successful ministry to one demon possessed man because he was crying out. So God cares more about that than he cares about the numbers of people that we serve. He cares about the ones that we're serving.

Jacob Barr (19:13)
Yeah. I would say from my experience in this work and in this movement, getting direction from God is like, that's the Trump card or that's the most important confidence building piece that you should use for where to go is that direction from God. More so than like a formula, more so than just like a catchphrase or something like that. think what God says is what needs to happen.

Stacey Womack (19:29)
Yeah.

Right.

Right. I always say God's a visionary of this organization because I'm very much an administrator. so I'm in the weeds all the time. And every once in a while, like when we have our benefit bank, I look up and I'm like, oh, look where we are. How did we end up here? And yet God has just been so faithful.

Jacob Barr (20:06)
Awesome. So one of the questions I like to ask on this podcast is what is something that's not commonly known amongst pregnancy clinic directors? You know, maybe only 10 % may, you know, practice a certain idea or, know, 10 % or less. When it comes to this recovery work and helping people, well, addressing the abuser, addressing the abused, what's something that you have learned or

Or maybe better yet, ⁓ the principal directors may not commonly understand or what's something that may be new or just underutilized.

Stacey Womack (20:46)
There's a lot of questions in there. Yeah.

Jacob Barr (20:48)
Yeah, like what's rare? What's something that's rare

in the work that you do that most people may not understand?

Stacey Womack (20:58)
I think that a lot of people just don't realize how vast the issue is. I know that when I started and I started leading a group in my own church, and these are church people, these are regular church attenders, how many of the women would privately come up to me and tell me that this was going on in their lives? And they're helping in Sunday school and they're doing all these things and I would never have known. And so I think for some pregnancy centers to understand that,

They don't always understand that the language that a woman uses actually speaks to the abuse that she's experiencing ⁓ because of how narrowly we define abuse. she, even for traffic, let's say a victim or someone who's walked into the center and now is pregnant because they were trafficked, whatever, they may call the person who trafficked them their boyfriend, which is a very common thing.

We talk about the intersection between trafficking and domestic violence in our training. ⁓ But just the vastness, I can't get on a plane. If anybody asks me what I do, as soon as they tell them what I do, they begin to tell me their story or their mother's story or their sister's story or the issue is so huge. mean, one in three. When I do trainings even for small groups of people,

I know that I've got somebody in there who has or is experiencing abuse or maybe using abuse behavior. you know, the men can be abused too, but the number is less. I think that what they're referring to is like one in seven now for men. And definitely as children though, we see a lot more, almost all of our men have experienced abuse in their childhood in some form or fashion or witnessed it.

And I guess that the other thing that was shocking to me as we train on this is that children who witness abuse have the exact same effects as those who experience or the direct victims of abuse. So those watching it have the same effects except for one thing. Those children who are watching it but are not the direct victims have higher rates of mental health issues.

So we are working with that next generation because we've been doing this for so long and believe me, we're dealing with a lot more mental health than we ever have, making our job a lot harder than it used to be.

Jacob Barr (23:10)
Hmm.

Wow. Yeah, that's, that's I'm currently in a, so on Thursdays, my wife and I, meet with, ⁓ two of the pastors at our church for, marriage counseling. And it's been a really good experience. And right now we're going through our childhood and looking at influences and it's, it's just remarkable how very small, subtle things that I'd never, I never think of will show up and having impact throughout.

Stacey Womack (23:47)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jacob Barr (23:50)
throughout someone's life or throughout my life. And so I think it's more of a question of helping someone find, finding these things more so than it just being in certain people's lives. Cause I think it's present and it comes in early.

Stacey Womack (23:52)
Right?

Sure.

Sure. And I'm really glad you brought that up because I think couples counseling is great, but when it's when it is about domestic violence and abuse, if you don't like to use those words, power and control. ⁓ Couples counseling is never recommended and anybody who's trained in domestic violence would never recommend couples counseling because it puts the victim at risk. So they need to be worked with separately and you don't treat it the same as normal marital conflict. But I agree that my husband and I have done counseling, we've been married three

45 years so you know I think there's value in that for the for the couple where there's emotional safety as well as physical safety. Couples counseling can be so helpful to work through those things but it's it's interesting in working with the men that once they do their work in their men's group they don't need couples counseling anymore because it really came down to their own selfishness and self-centeredness and he and we encourage them go to counseling for your any childhood trauma you have.

because studies show that men who don't deal with their childhood trauma aren't successful at sustaining change. So we want them to do that. We want them to get the help that they need so they can finish that healing process. We just keep dragging that stuff into our future. Even if we didn't like it, we drag it in and we end up using some of those things that we promised ourselves we'd never do. So, yeah.

Jacob Barr (25:30)
that's good.

So another one of the questions or pillars of this podcast is I'd to invite, I'd like to invite you to share something encouraging for, for Pringlese Clinic directors. So what would you like to say to Pringlese Clinic directors in general that would encourage them in the work that they're doing?

Stacey Womack (25:48)
Absolutely, you know, they're already doing work that's saving lives. And it's great. It's a wonderful thing to save the life of a newborn. But let's also save the mothers in this sense of not just if we can lead them to Christ, but also in helping them to have healthy relationships themselves so they don't.

themselves find themselves repeating that same cycle over and over again. And so, you know, we have had so many women who have come into the program who fully intended to go back because that's they really when they leave sometimes they're just hoping that he'll get a clue and he'll stop his behavior. ⁓ But they begin to understand who they are in Christ and that it's that because they're valuable that abuse is not okay.

And so they learn then how to set boundaries with consequences in an appropriate way and have the support of a group to do that. Most women cannot find their way out of abuse without the support of others. And it is just such a lovely dovetail into this. I had a woman come up to me at a conference who had just, there were three weeks into the 15 weeks and she goes, my gosh, Stacey, the change in the women is just so amazing.

I had another gal at a conference come to me and she said, I'm doing this one-on-one with clients as a counselor. I'm just taking them through it. And she goes, I love, love, love this program. So it's just the heart of God and it's simple and yet it's so important to be trained well so you don't accidentally put somebody in danger. how do you help these women who...

who are really hoping that their relationships do make it. mean, the women we work with and the women they're working with, they really do want their relationships to work. They love their partners. And so you can't go negative on the other person as much as you can just stick to, know, let's pray for him, but let's work on you. Let's help you with what you need right now. And pregnancy centers, they're already working with this population and we just want to equip them.

to do it well, or we can consult with them, or we can help them in any way they want us to. So ⁓ that's just really our heart is to help them help those they're already working with.

Jacob Barr (28:12)
So when someone has a relationship with someone who's experiencing abuse, but yet that person doesn't want to leave that scenario, ⁓ what's some good advice for someone in that situation?

Stacey Womack (28:30)
think you have to have a level of readiness. And I've written a really small book called On the Frontlines of Abuse Strategies for the Faith Community. And it goes through some of this training stuff I would normally do. ⁓

you know, I think you have to understand if they're not ready, you can't, you're not going to get them moved out. They're going to go right back if you do, they're not ready. So it's more about let's plant some seeds. So I tell the pregnancy centers run the class year round, just like we do. If the women are there, they go to class, even if they don't think like they need it, because a lot of the women don't see themselves as victims of abuse. So they'll come in and then they get to hear this and you're planting seeds right when you have them. Otherwise, the abuser is going to coerce them

back into relationship. So I really want to encourage them that you don't know, they may not be ready. I've had women in my own church who came to my group, sat down, looked at the opening materials and sat it back down and got up and walked out of the room and said, sorry, I'm not ready. And we have to respect that.

⁓ But what we can do is keep reminding her of her value and her worth and helping to educate her in whatever way we can around what abuse is. And so those eight different forms of abuse that I talk about, I go through them in detail. And so they can ⁓ really understand, because most women think, it's not that bad. And then when go through all the types of abuse, they go, my gosh, I've experienced all of these.

And because again, abuse isn't about one behavior or another, it's about any behavior used to gain or maintain power and control. So I want them to know that you've got a woman, she wants to go back, you know, it's just helping her understand that there she does have options. You're not telling her what to do, but there are options for her to get help and how she can do that safely.

Jacob Barr (30:27)
Hmm, that makes sense. on a new topic, what about, so with helping women that are, you know, that experienced abuse or trying to, or trying to help the abuser, these sound like a lot of hard cases or ones in which volunteers might experience burnout because it might get hard or it be complicated or you have to like, let the person make, you know, make their choice and just.

Observe how they might may make a different direction that within the direction you would hope so with that said How does how do you or your team? ⁓ Restore your souls or how do you avoid burnout? How do you? ⁓ You know not throwing the towel every Friday

Stacey Womack (31:12)
Sure,

sure, absolutely. well ⁓ first off, my staff, as far as I'm concerned, we all feel called to this work. So like you said, that's very sustaining, but we are generally a volunteer-ran organization. So we have a hundred volunteer leaders and what...

One of the things that we teach right off the bat is to know that you're not the fixer. God is your job is to lead that group, pray for them and trust the Holy Spirit to move in their lives. And I know that God taught this to me early on when I was ⁓ worrying about two women. I was working on my home as a volunteer myself in the beginning and I had two women who were going to be homeless and I had hunted and hunted and hunted for places for them to stay and I couldn't find any place. And I was just getting off the phone with the second woman, just prayed with her.

she was about having she was getting ready to leave the house she'd been in and I was standing I got up and I stood by my chair remember what the weather was like outside and God said to me do you believe what you pray?

And he said, either pray in faith or don't pray at all. So one of things I've learned to do is I pray and I release. I trust God. And if they do come to mind, then I just know God wants me to pray for them in that moment. If I wake up in the middle of the night thinking of them, okay, I need to pray for them right now. But I don't carry the worry around with me because I am not God and I cannot, this is way too big for me. I cannot fix this, but God can.

And what happened, Jacob, was two weeks later, both of them called me and God hadn't just provided them housing, He'd provided them permanent housing. So God was just showing me, He's got this. Every time I stepped outside of the boundaries that God has set for us as an organization, it has always come back and bit me because in the last time it happened, I remember God going, see, see? It's like, I told you, you don't have to do all these other things. Just do what I've told you to do.

I don't have to do it all, none of us have to do it all. We all need each other. We all work together as a community. And that's why I'm okay with reaching out to other organizations and partnering with other organizations and secular and Christian organizations because ⁓ sometimes they have services that nobody else does. So whatever we need to do to help the individual.

Jacob Barr (33:40)
That's good. So which, which, which obviously English, but what other languages might a group run in like, what other languages have been running in some of these groups?

Stacey Womack (33:50)
Sure.

So we have it in Spanish and so we have a virtual option for Spanish, a Spanish speaking group, or we can train someone. And we've met some women at the conference who want to train to do it in Spanish and their communities, a lot of Spanish speakers. We have it in Russian. That's also, I believe that...

that we have a virtual option for that and we have it in German. There's a WhatsApp for that because most other countries, they can't use Zoom. It costs money to use Zoom, so they're using WhatsApp. And then Kenya has its own nonprofit status or NGO is what they call it. So we have it translated in Kiswahili. And then we had a gal who went, we train people from all over the world. So we have a gal from Poland who has translated into Polish.

So those are the six languages. think I got them all. And English, of course. So, yeah.

Jacob Barr (34:46)
Wow. So someone's bilingual and they have a, you know, their native tongue and a, well, they're called to help in this area. It sounds like you could do it again, going from those six to one more and one more as called.

Stacey Womack (35:00)
Absolutely. I'd

love to have some Asian languages in there. ⁓ I had one trafficking organization. They were going through the training from Vienna. But they said most of the women they worked with were from China and they needed in Mandarin.

Jacob Barr (35:21)
It's really good.

So one of my newer favorite questions is it connects with Psalms 23 and going back to that, you know, avoiding burnout. So what green pastures or still waters has God put in your life? You know, the green pastures were like God puts you there and your soul is restored or the still waters is where you have to follow Him and then you get your soul restored.

Stacey Womack (35:48)
Sure.

Jacob Barr (35:49)
What's a green pasture or still water in your life?

Stacey Womack (35:52)
My life is so funny because the whole Her Journey program is based off of Psalms 23. For me, I love nature and my husband and I for the last few years have been physically building our own home. So besides the framing and having a well dug and setting the septic tank, we've done everything outside of that. So just being up there and being in the trees, we have five acres of forest land and I just...

Jacob Barr (35:57)
good.

Stacey Womack (36:21)
It's just so beautiful. And so for me, that's kind of a restful place. then when I'm at work and I can't be there, just my first five to 15 minutes in the morning with my little cup of chai, just my quiet time with God is just kind of my place of peace. And ⁓ I use a lot of ⁓ Christian worship, contemporary worship. I listen to that to encourage me. And sometimes just the drive home and being completely quiet.

As an introvert, I need recharging and so I don't get to be an introvert at work. So I have to find ways to recharge.

Jacob Barr (36:58)
And speaking of quiet, so when you were listening to God's still quiet voice, what were your surroundings like, you know, during one of those times? Like, were you off by yourself or away from your inbox, away from your dishwasher, away from the washing machine? Like, where were you when you were able to find that level of quietness?

Stacey Womack (37:17)
You know, I couldn't tell you exactly, but I know generally for me, it is usually when my mind is fairly empty, maybe I'm folding the wash or maybe I'm doing the dishes. One of biggest things is like when I'm scrubbing the bathroom floors or cleaning the bathtub, God and I have all these conversations while I'm doing things like that. Because other times, my mind is busy and I'm thinking about things and

Jacob Barr (37:29)
Okay, something mundane.

you

Stacey Womack (37:45)
But one of my favorite times I think is like just as I'm waking up, just like when you're not fully awake yet, but so your mind hasn't gotten busy, but you hear God speaking to you. And sometimes it's that one line in that song even.

that God is just reminding you of your value or that he will never fail you or whatever it may be. So I think God speaks to me in a lot of different ways, you through scripture, through, you know, hearing the word in church, through that quiet voice. My son goes, God, I don't hear God like you, mom. I've never experienced God like that. And I don't think people should feel bad. think God, he'll find a way to speak to you.

If you're willing and you're asking Him, I want to hear you, God, He'll find a way. Sometimes it's just a nudging.

Jacob Barr (38:34)
Yeah, that's good. So when you're at that property with the, you know, the sounds like I'm imagining pine trees, but maybe there's some other kind of trees or as pine trees. Okay. So when you experience that, you know, that cabin out in the woods, ⁓ yeah, tell me like, what are some of the, you know, beyond the cabin, like when it comes to like the sound of the wind or the, birds, the view, the sunsets, like, what are your top three?

Stacey Womack (38:41)
Pine trees, yeah.

Sure.

Jacob Barr (39:02)
you parts in that property.

Stacey Womack (39:04)
I love trees and I love to watch them sway in the wind and we're actually not that, you know, like it's an hour and a half one direction to the coast, hour and a half to the mountains kind of thing here in Oregon. you kind of go another half hour, you can be in the desert if you want. So we kind of have a little bit of everything here, but.

It sounds like the ocean when the wind is really blowing through the trees. So kind of feel like I get both, you know, and this weekend there was a lightning and thunderstorm. We don't get many of those here in the Portland metro area in Oregon when it is a big deal because we don't get many of them. But up there in the mountains it'd be more common because it kind of creates its own weather. And ⁓ we sat out on our deck outside, covered deck that we have.

⁓ and just watch the lightning storm and listen to the thunder and, and, and it would rain just a tiny bit. And the whole smell of everything would change. It just smelled so good, so fresh. And it's like, ⁓ you know, and, and I, what came to me was like, God is so powerful. He made all these things that are scary, but beautiful. And, ⁓ and he's bigger than that. He's, bigger than all of that because the one created those things to be reminded of that.

Jacob Barr (40:00)
Hmm

Yeah.

Stacey Womack (40:20)
Yeah.

Jacob Barr (40:21)
Well, thank you, Stacy, for being on here. Before we wrap up, are there any final thoughts you'd like to share or any? Well, yeah. What are your final thoughts? Yeah.

Stacey Womack (40:27)
I would just like, yeah, I'd like

people to know that they can find us ⁓ at abuserecovery.org on the website. So abuserecovery.org, simple. We have all kinds of ⁓ helps on there that are free downloadable things, even a how healthy is your relationship quiz. It's not gendered, so anybody could take it to decide, I in healthy relationship or not? Which is sometimes the best thing to do for someone who isn't sure.

And that we are here for them and for anybody who's listening, even if they're in a pregnancy center, we run into people everywhere, even in centers, in recovery homes who are leaders, but who also are experiencing this to know that we're here for you too. And everything we do is confidential and that we want to serve you and the women that you're serving or even the men that you're serving. So, ⁓ because we care and because this is what God has called us to.

Jacob Barr (41:22)
Awesome, Stacey. Well, would you close out our podcast with a prayer and maybe those who are listening will join in.

Stacey Womack (41:27)
Absolutely. Lord Jesus, I just thank you so much for this time and God, just pray you're anointing on it that whatever the listener needs to hear, they heard, God. And I pray, Lord, that you would remove any obstacle, any barrier that would keep them from reaching out, whether it's learning more or

or becoming a leader or needing help for themselves. I pray that no fear, nothing would keep them from moving forward, Lord, that you would provide that avenue and that they would move on that, God. I pray for protection and for blessing over them and over Jacob in this ministry that he's involved in as well. I thank you for this in Jesus' name, amen.

Jacob Barr (42:12)
Amen. I'm going to stop the recording.