The Importance of Men’s Programs in Pregnancy Clinics

Summary

As Jacob Barr, I would summarize this episode of the Pro-Life Team Podcast, where I had a conversation with Tony Trammell from Dadhood. We discussed the crucial role of men’s programs in pregnancy clinics and the importance of differentiating between being a father and being a dad. Tony emphasized that a dad is actively involved in their child’s life, unlike a father who might be absent or only provides financial support.

We delved into the generational impact of father-absent homes and how pregnancy clinics can break this cycle by engaging young men. Tony highlighted the common scenario where men feel sidelined in pregnancy decisions due to societal norms, and how pregnancy clinics can actively involve them by inquiring about their thoughts and feelings regarding the pregnancy.

We also explored how men’s programs can turn around the situation for both the child and the mother. These programs provide essential support, help the fathers to be more involved, and contribute to healthier pregnancies. Tony shared innovative approaches from various clinics, like woodworking programs, where expectant fathers build changing tables for their babies, fostering a deeper connection and sense of responsibility.

Lastly, we talked about how Dadhood supports clinics in establishing effective men’s programs, offering resources and training to equip volunteers and staff. This support is vital in creating an environment where men feel included and can actively participate in the pregnancy journey.

Popular hashtags that match the contents of this podcast could be:
#Dadhood, #FathersInFocus, #PregnancyClinicInnovation, #BreakingCycles, #FatherhoodMatters, #MenInPregnancy, #InvolvedDads, #FamilySupport, #HealthyPregnancies, #ParentingPrograms.

Transcript

The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.

Jacob Barr :

Welcome to the pro-life Team Podcast i’m here with Tony with Dadhood, and we’re going to talk about men’s programs and the need for men’s programs to be more of the norm in Princeton clinics, more so than being just a rare scenario that’s only in about 10 to 20 to 40 % of different levels of clinics. We like to see it in all clinics really. Could you introduce yourself if you were to meet an executive director in a elevator how would you introduce yourself to her as to like who you are and how you normally come up come alongside a clinic to help them with their Mens program. And quite often I don’t have to begin that conversation because if I have A tag or a shirt on and say what is dadhood OK?

Tony Trammell :

And it’s really a play on fatherhood going beyond fatherhood because. You can be a father but not really be a dad. Ok, so that’s the difference in our name as we try to create dads and not just let them be fathers because any man can really be a father. But we have a lot of fathers out there today who are not dads.

Jacob Barr :

So how would you explain the difference like what does a dad have that a father may not?

Tony Trammell :

A dad, first of all, is there. He’s involved. He’s part of their son or daughter’s life. Instead of just being somebody that the the child never meets or somebody who just writes a check every month, you know, there’s more to being a father than just child support, OK? An involved father to me as a dad, and there’s A and there’s a difference there. That’s good. Especially for the sake of the mom. You know, whether she’s going to be a single mom or considered a single mom all on her own. And she shouldn’t have to be.

Jacob Barr :

It’s not her job to be both. And moms need dads more. More so than just fathers, Yeah.

Tony Trammell :

And she needs, she needs the support as much as her child does.

Jacob Barr :

So yeah, but I mean, like her husband, you know her, you know, the person in relationship with her she needs, she needs that, that man to be a dad to her child and not just to be a father, the father of the child, Right?

Tony Trammell :

Ok and most of the. The vast majority of young men who come into a pregnancy center are from father absent homes and it’s it’s almost like a generational repeating thing it becomes a a cycle that becomes the norm to allow the young men who come in because that’s all they’ve ever known, is a father absent home. And one thing that can really challenge them is is asking do you want your child to grow up the way you did? And they think about that. And usually say no, I don’t want i want to know my I want to I want to know my child i want to be involved in their life and not grow up the way I did so it’s it’s really if you just point out to them, do you want them to go through life the way you have up to this point or do you want to be involved and usually if they see the difference and understand the difference, they don’t want what they consider normal. They want to change that and break that cycle.

Jacob Barr :

Oh, that’s good yeah. So I had some questions. When you look, I wanted to ask you about, let’s see. So when it comes to messaging, you know, when it comes to apprentice clinic and bringing up dads, I think we were talking before a couple hours ago about how sometimes a clinic when they’re, when they’re providing counseling that they may not mention it or they’re wondering why they don’t have, you know, people asking about dads i forget how you said it, but somehow like you asked them like, is it in your you know, did you bring it up where you know, did you invite the dad to the father to the ultrasound and things along those lines can you tell that, tell that story?

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, it’s it’s kind of a nothing wrong about it was just kind of a mindset that is a a women’s ministry, Pregnancy center is a women’s ministry. And many of them want to include the father, they want to include the male, but it’s just not. The way they’re set up, so you just really have to think outside what is considered their normal box and begin to actively reach out to them and not just assume they’re going to find you or find your services and come in. As far as the messaging, you just really have to make it part of your focus, part of your mission, because a lot of centers will start a men’s ministry and we’ve helped several do that that will say we’re not getting the men in. Because they haven’t changed the message they haven’t begin to actually truly invite young men to come into the center because they haven’t put it on their website or they haven’t stressed it in their social media pages. They haven’t begin to reach out to the young men who actually come into the building, who are actually there by using brochures or if you have a male in the building and what we call coaches, advocates, mentors. Having them actually go out and talk with them, not just in the building but actually active in the building. So a lot of centers struggle with the, with the messaging, how do we reach men we reach men basically saying we do the young ladies, but just in a different style yeah.

Jacob Barr :

And one of the things that you mentioned was like, you know, asking the young lady to invite obviously when appropriate, but inviting her, the dad or the father of this child to come to the ultrasound or asking what does he think about this pregnancy and so if that doesn’t get brought up, what are the benefits of asking about the father? And because you were saying before how he’s probably the most influential voice in this scenario yeah.

Tony Trammell :

I always try to get our centers to understand that that’s really important, to actively reach out to the father of the baby, if she’s abortion minded or abortion vulnerable. And if she’s in the in the center talking with a, you know, female client advocate, making sure that that advocate finds out, where does the dad stand where is the father is he still around is he? In a relationship with you, what does he think about this? Because the biggest reason that young ladies consider abortion or have abortion is they are getting pressure from the father of the baby to abort, or they’re getting no support from the from the father of the baby. And sometimes in in these times. He doesn’t want an abortion, but he’s afraid to say anything because he’s been told by our society and our culture today that it’s her decision and not yours. And you should just, you know, basically sit down and shut up and we’ll let you know if we need you or not.

Jacob Barr :

So he’s kind of been browbeaten into that whole my, body, my body, my choice and something.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, yeah, no voice something like that. Yeah, we’re very good at getting this in, getting the titles right, aren’t we but those, whatever the movie is.

Jacob Barr :

But yeah, but that’s that shout that’s that exactly that message from the enemy of be quiet it’s not your body, it’s not your voice you’re not the one making the decision. Yeah and essentially pushing him out of the room, Yes. And he and he is obviously is in the room and needs to have a voice in the room, yes.

Tony Trammell :

And if she chooses a wife, that’s just that much harder on her because she’s kind of pushed the father of the baby out of the room.

Jacob Barr :

And it’s almost like, it’s almost like people like the scenario is that of course he’s for abortion and we should just keep him out it’s almost like that’s the voice that the enemy is putting in our ear is that he’ll obviously be, you know, he’ll make it harder but in reality, that may not be his voice his voice could be, yeah.

Tony Trammell :

He thinks he’s doing the right thing by being quiet and letting her make the decision. She looks at it as he’s not going to support me he’s being quiet, He’s not offering any support here, so that means he’s. He wants me to abort. I don’t want to be a single mom i don’t want to be getting this all by myself i don’t want to go through a pregnancy by myself. She takes that as he’s not going to be there for me. And he’s looking at like, well, I let her make the decision it’s her body, her choice. And there’s just a lack of communication there where they don’t, you know, actually communicate what they what each one’s thinking, which is what, like you said, the enemy says that’s what he wants. Author of confusion. So there’s he thinks he’s doing the right thing, and she thinks she’s have to do the right thing to, you know, she sees no other way out she sees no hope.

Jacob Barr :

So tell me about the how this gets turned around or improved or by a by a men’s program and how having men involved tell me like you know where where’s the the solution from your viewpoint?

Tony Trammell :

Well, I think you know, this being the ministry I’ve had for 20 years. Is that every center in America should not only have an outreach to men, but actually embrace that ministry as in a dream world and perfect world as at the same level or the same passion as they do with the girls. Because I it takes two And if we are going to truly try to stop abortion if we leave him outside the building. We’re we’re missing the biggest impact we can have with his voice being involved. And if he’s been shut down or or shut out, we’re missing a big influence on the decision. And we’re basically denying him all that he can be as a father, all that he can be to become a dad. And if he’s, you know, secluded, I always say where else is he going to go? You know he’s been told to stay out of the decision. She’s getting lots of wonderful help in a center and she’s been, she’s shown love and compassion of, of course. And he’s basically shown the door, you know yeah so I think every center should, at least at the very minimum, welcome him in, when I think most centers do that anyway, but also have something there for him. A lot of young men that I talk to, they come in, they want to be involved. And I think there’s a higher percentage of young men wanting to be involved than what we’re seeing in pregnancy centers. You know, I have the book back there, building dads in pink buildings. And some people look at that and say, well, we’re not a pink building well, that’s not the point. It’s the way he sees your building yeah.

Jacob Barr :

It’s the way he sees your ministry you know, most executive directors are women, most staff and counselors and nurse teams or women. Yes, I would guess it’s what would you say the number of how many men are currently like staff, volunteers typically across?

Tony Trammell :

Your experience. There are more male. Executive directors than they used to be. Years ago I started doing this, but I’d say it’s maybe 10 %. That’s just a wild guess.

Jacob Barr :

And maybe it used to be 5 %.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, it’s way it’s doubled.

Jacob Barr :

It’s doubled.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, it’s way up.

Jacob Barr :

Big increase. Yeah yeah.

Tony Trammell :

But that does make a difference having a. It seems to me what I’ve have experienced over the years is having a male executive director changes the. Dynamics of the center enough that there is an outreach now, that’s not to say I know some wonderful female executive directors who just have a heart for the men and who work hard and do great work. Having men’s ministries. This may sound offensive to the other ones i just say they get it. They’re they’re the ones who get it and embrace it and run with it. There are others who? Who I’d say get it, but they just don’t have the opportunity or the, you know, they don’t have the foundation to build upon to, yeah, reach men quite yet.

Jacob Barr :

So the needs, the needs vary when it comes to support and information and education on how to include a men’s program. Yeah and it seems like overall there’s a huge need for more people to do it better or to or to even do it at all. I think that’s the overarching message is that it seems like a small % of Quincy clinics have a healthy men’s program, while the next group, you know, the next most people don’t have a men’s program at all. And then several have a men’s program that maybe, you know, not doing well and then a small % seem to have one that’s doing well. And so it seems like there’s a lot of need for growth and improvement in education and. A lot of room there, a lot of room to do better overall. So one of the podcasts I was working on two weeks ago and it turned out well, I was low energy and so I didn’t turn out very well and I want to do it again and we’re going to do it again in a few weeks but it was talking about how a clinic had over the last six years has helped 16 couples get married and they partnered with a church who then provided premarital counseling. The web. The venue was provided by the church and and then the pastor was able to provide that yeah premarital and post marital counseling and along with some essentially trying to help ideally hopefully providing discipleship church community and but all of that is it hinges on the fact that the that you know that there’s a couple here and it’s not just a woman by herself in several scenarios there is a man involved and to different degrees but actually trying to bring it all the way to building, you know strengthening that relationship between that couple is a way of also well, I mean yeah, so and make. A better life for their baby for sure, and essentially helping both of those both the man and the woman meet Jesus, making good decisions or better decisions down the road and getting closer as they begin their walk with Jesus because basic clinics are amazing at helping people who have unplanned pregnancy and have a lot of hardships going on to help them meet Jesus in this time through action and word. And then to be able to bring that couple to a church community where they can continue to to grow and to fellowship and to you know have discipleship and learning. But all you know, that integral puzzle piece in that entire story is that the man is being included and supported and with, you know, pastoral care and counseling. Yeah, yeah, it’s like that’s an ideal situation but that dadhood piece or that fatherhood, you know, bringing the man in with with some level of discipleship and support it, it seems like, yeah, that is very much part of that plan. Yeah, I I don’t.

Tony Trammell :

Think you would find a center director or a center at all that would disagree with? We would love to see these. Parents come together.

Jacob Barr :

Unless there’s like an abusive situation of course, or something like that and that’s why I have some hesitation because there’s some, you know, yeah if someone is in a dangerous situation, that’s not the best decision no, but their safety is so important, right but if. But if they’re in many situations, it is a good, you know, place for them to build and and to for both of them to get on a better journey.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, you know, I think what I’ve seen with. I would probably say most young men, at least, you know, at least 5050 if they come into the center and they can can speak with what we call a coach, a male advocate, you know, a mentor, whatever you want to call him or give his title. I found that these young men are more open to the gospel than they would have been a week ago before they got a positive pregnancy test and I think that’s the same way with with everybody. If you don’t really think about God until you’re at that point, where where else do I go? So when they come into the center, you know you can introduce them to Christ where they have never really met him before or wanted to meet him before. So it’s a great place it’s a it’s a mission field. And the great thing about that mission field is they come to you, you don’t have to go halfway around the world and. You know, pick up your family and go to Africa or something.

Jacob Barr :

They come into you and you have the opportunity to share and they are yeah and it seems like they’re going through a really hard time which makes it so they’re willing to listen and and then when Jesus provides hope help and healing, it’s such a remarkable opportunity to to you know, it’s just it seems like it’s the timing is is right for people to hear it.

Tony Trammell :

They’re looking for hope. And especially if they’re abortion minded, they they see no hope in their situation. And then of course there’s always hope in Christ so when you can introduce them to the to the gospel and share that and they accept Christ, it turns the whole situation around where they felt like before their world had turned upside down with the news of a positive test and an unexpected or unplanned pregnancy sure. Now you flip it back and they, you know they have the hope of. Christ and eternal life and all the things that come away with what we call the abundant life. And what a great way to start a family, what a great place to you know, build upon with with a baby, you know, because then the baby can be introduced to Christ. Whereas before, if it was a different situation, possibly never, never would have had the opportunity to hear it from their parents, so. The opportunity is there when you have a young man come into the building and you really actively reach him with passion and and gusto. You can change so many lives and then of course the ripple effects from that go out to their their support community, their families, whoever it may be, can at that point reach or can find Christ as well it’s just, you know, it’s it’s a. Something that just flows out from that. So it’s a great place and great opportunity, especially for young men, to find the Lord that they may never have found otherwise.

Jacob Barr :

Well, that’s really good. So tell me about your ministry or or organization or company dadhood how? How do you come alongside pregnancy clinics to help empower them to reach men?

Tony Trammell :

Well, you know, there are a lot of. And we hear we’ve already heard here at this conference of centers that want to reach men they see the need and they see the side effects that that comes along with reaching men. But they just don’t know how because it’s not in their wheelhouse you know they’ve their focus is is is ministering to the young ladies and they do a wonderful job of that, but it’s a different. Focus is you have you have to change gears to reach young men. So we try to help them come alongside them. Nothing else just give them some advice. You know we have a book that helps them the building that has some pink buildings help them overcome that view by the young men coming in that it’s it’s not just a pink building it’s at least a neutral building where they can come in and feel welcome, and it’s not just a place where. Female medicine happens and, you know, scary and they don’t want to even walk in the door. They’re thinking inside the door in the waiting room is an OBGYN waiting or something. But we try to help them figure out ways to maybe make their their center more friendly. And then if they are really interested in, you know, starting a men’s ministry, we try to help them with the book we have curriculum that we can equip them with. We have some, some resources for abortion minded and abortion vulnerable young men, different ways to help them attract. Like I said, like we call coaches. But I’ve found over the years and I had somebody just commented a little while ago about the fact that if you have male volunteers, men who want to be involved and men who want to be coaches, you have to give them something. You can’t just let them come in the door and expect them just to run with the ball and have great success. They have to have something to work with too. If you can put a curriculum or something in their hands and say, hey, this is for you, this is a male specific, this is male freely only For the guys. They say OK then this helps me, I can go with it. But if you just bring them in, it’s like sending them to war with a without a gun and expecting great success. And I hope nobody gets upset with a gun reference we could. We could use our society, yeah.

Jacob Barr :

Sending someone to to build a house without their tools.

Tony Trammell :

There you go. That’s better in today in today’s society, that’s much better without a hammer yeah yeah.

Jacob Barr :

Can you put this nail in there without the hammer?

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but you know, if you give them something to work with, it may be a hammer, maybe a curriculum. Sure, they can have a lot better success because the main thing is to get the guys in and talk to them. A lot of these guys want to these things might talk to. They have no father in their lives, they have nobody at home. The best advice they’re getting advice is from their buddies who you know are basically useless when it comes to good solid.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, I mean, I’d be the right source for for wisdom.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah. Yeah, They’re kind of short on that probably at that age I was so.

Jacob Barr :

That’s understandable or common, I suppose, in many circles.

Tony Trammell :

So yeah, so they can, you know, we try to help centers get started and then we do on site trainings to for their coaches where we can help them learn how to use the curriculum, how to visit with young men, how to administer, how to reach out and just try to help them get started and get building. Some centers already have a men’s ministry in place they just need to kick it up a notch.

Jacob Barr :

So what’s the variety of men’s programs like i can imagine like a men’s Bible study. But before we were talking, before this podcast, we were talking about how some groups would have like a barbecue or or a woodworking option that would help provide like space to do discipleship or building trust, rapport and lessonships.

Tony Trammell :

And yeah, I think the best discipleship is just life on life, OK? Building a rapport, building a relationship. Same way it works with the with the girls and their advocate you build a relationship and you’ve really established something. Different centers have tried different things and I get to, you know, learn from those things and try to share what’s working with with others. There’s a center and I can’t remember places or names that’s that’s fine. I remember the programs that’s, yeah, sometimes I remember the cities if I’m on A roll.

Jacob Barr :

But which programs or which ideas have like, well tried and that had some level of success?

Tony Trammell :

You know, there’s a center somewhere in America. I guess it’s in America i go, yeah hopefully they’ll listen to this podcast, yeah, And they’ll identify themselves they put them in the comments, yeah, because I forget. But they had some coaches and who were already part involved in the center somehow, who were woodworkers and they wanted to do something well, they set up a wood shop on the property there i I guess somebody had a wood shop they set up and they would take the the clients, the male clients who come in out into the wood shop and talk and then visit and then they would get them involved and learning how to use a lathe and all these things. If they got into the actual ongoing fatherhood program, which could be, you know, 10 weeks, 12 weeks, whatever they were, they would teach these young men how to use these things and they would build or they do build their babies changing table wow and like you said, that could be like a family yeah.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, I could imagine like.

Tony Trammell :

In 80 years, they might be passed down three times, depending on how well they build it, if it lasts 80 years.

Jacob Barr :

All right well, it’ll be in.

Tony Trammell :

We’ll go by faith it’ll be 80, it’ll be. In the online pictures, yeah, yeah. It’ll be in their video roles in 80 years, yeah. But I just think that’s a great program because it’s not just the building of the item, it’s that the the fellowship that goes along with it and the discipleship that goes along with it, the.

Jacob Barr :

Family heirlooms aren’t necessarily built, especially sometimes they’re having to be re hammered every couple decades.

Tony Trammell :

Yes, I have those. I have some of those.

Jacob Barr :

So yeah, so my mom, she has this piece from my granddad that he built when she was four years old. And it’s got rough edges. My dad’s had to repaint it a few times and it. Yeah, it definitely is not considered to be polished or necessarily safe, but the value of it is huge. I mean, yeah, if someone didn’t know that it was a family heirloom, they would look at it as kindling. Yeah, that wouldn’t even be. You wouldn’t give that to Goodwill. Yeah, yeah.

Tony Trammell :

It just that needs to go out to the street.

Jacob Barr :

But yeah, but based on the fact that it was made by. My granddad, all of my children have ridden in it and they love swinging in it and it’s a huge. It’s a good experience because it was passed down and it’s just a really awesome thing.

Tony Trammell :

Stuff like what my grandpa’s made for me and my cousins and his kids, just stuff that has outlived him. We have a quilt rack in our living room and trash cans. Yeah, OK, matching tater boxes.

Jacob Barr :

Tater boxes.

Tony Trammell :

So maybe a dog food box that looks like a tater box and most people have no clue.

Jacob Barr :

What we’re talking about, Yeah, I don’t know what a Tater Box is what so what is actually?

Tony Trammell :

How does a tater box work or what’s it look like? Well, the trash cans are like so tall, 3-3 feet tall, whatever. And they’re A-frame and you put a trash bag in and it’s just made for a kitchen trash bag and then the lid sits over that to hold it in and then it has a rise up and down lid. Well, the tater box or dog food box or tater and onion box, however somebody wanted it made because he used to make them for people, just has a slanted lid kind of and it says that on it and it’s a smaller box you can keep your potatoes in or onions and it has like a whatever the back and the back is breathable i’m trying to think of the right one oK. So it’s open so it has some circulation to it so they don’t rot so. But he made stuff like that, which I still have. He made clocks he made doll houses for my female cousins wow you know, he. And that’s just the way, you know, just the way he showed his love for his grandkids. He would he would. He would not verbally express it he was just kind of that old. He was born in the teens, so he grew up in the Depression days and World War 2 and all that and so he wasn’t very verbal, but you could, you could tell the satisfaction he would take and making those for his kids and grandkids.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, so it seems, yeah, if a picture is worth a thousand Words, making someone a Taylor box or or making something for somebody out of wood.

Tony Trammell :

Probably speaks at least 7 to 10.000 thousand Words yeah yeah. Or like with the changing tables. Yes, that would of course it wouldn’t mean anything to the baby right away, obviously, but it would obviously, definitely show some commitment from the father.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, I think it helps him connect. Yes, with this baby.

Tony Trammell :

It engages him during the pregnancy it gives him ownership and it takes a while to build that, especially if he doesn’t know what he’s doing. You know these coaches are are training him how to use these shop tools and things, OK And they’re spending that time together in fellowship and they’re you know building relationship whether that’s what that’s probably more of a male thing that is. Yeah I.

Jacob Barr :

Think it helps them take ownership. It helps them have a story to share that’s, yeah, that has a commit a masculine. It’s, yeah, a masculine story about the pregnancy.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah and it may end up like your mom’s swing where it needs patched and fixed yeah.

Jacob Barr :

But that’s that’s OK, yeah you know that the part about the, you know, the value is in the the history more so than, yeah, in the unit.

Tony Trammell :

And it really gives a lot of, I’m sure, a lot of pride to the young father who makes it that he has, he’s able to give it to his child and it probably shows, reveals a lot or proves a lot even sometimes in some situation to her family and his family that he’s real about this he’s on board and he’s, you know, really taking the the situation seriously and he’s engaged and he’s here to stay. So I hope that, you know, I hope that’s what it says and I hope he’s here to stay. But when they buy into a pregnancy, you know, as soon as he gets the news, he’s going to be a father he gets the test that is a positive test. If he gets involved then and he’s there for the pregnancy and he’s learning and growing and he and the mom are working together and growing together, it’s just a natural step for him to become a father. Whereas before, whereas sometimes we say OK here’s your positive test in seven months you’re going to be a father and we’ll let you know and he’s just say go sit on the bench in the dugout until then and be warming up and we’ll we’ll let you know when.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, and we need him to get in that game and we need him to be playing and a part and active and active participants.

Tony Trammell :

It makes all the difference in the world, and it makes all the difference in the world for her too, that that he is there to support her and walk through it. And you know, studies will show show too that if he’s involved, she has a healthier pregnancy because he helps hold her accountable for her health decisions, you know, abstaining from alcohol or or smoking. And she’s more likely even to take her prenatal vitamins because he’s there to kind of check on her. That makes sense. Yeah, some of the some of the stats you get out of there, like really never really thought about that. But she she takes better care of herself as he if he is walking alongside her through the pregnancy.

Jacob Barr :

So how does your group dadhood? Help a clinic bring in the you know how does it help serve the the the clients that are men or the you know, the men and these couples that are coming in with unplanned pregnancy tests or unplanned pregnancies from a positive test how? How does your group help Come alongside and encourage and empower clinics to to reach and support the men in these?

Tony Trammell :

Yeah first of all, we want to just encourage.

Jacob Barr :

Making sure we’re we’re good on the video, but yeah it’s good.

Tony Trammell :

We want to encourage the centers to get in the game. Ok to to really want to reach out to men. And we we help any way that we can to encourage them, give them free advice or whatever or share with them what other centers are doing that’s working. But then we also have some resources they can tap into we have our own curriculum that they can use to. It’s, you know, lessons they can use that the coach, mentor, advocate, whatever your terminology wants to be. That they can work with these young men, teach them, train them lessons about even practical stuff like budgeting and things like that. All the way to taking a good look at your own father and see if you want to repeat what he’s done in your life or improve upon it.

Jacob Barr :

So how so practically, how does this connect with the man is it something that he is given, like a pamphlet or some printouts? Or is it something that the counselor would use to use to on how to speak to him like what? How does it sort of like where does the rubber meet the road when it comes to? How does he connect with this content?

Tony Trammell :

You know the biggest thing is just talking to him. Ok building a rapport as quickly as you can and figuring out what he need, what his needs are meeting him where he is using curriculum and maybe somebody else’s curriculum, but something to meet him there and grow him from that point. We, you know, we help train coaches and centers, how to use their curriculum and how to engage them. Some men want to do that they’re just not quite sure how. So like we have interactive videos and things that will teach them and train them to at least how to deal with young men coming in in those different situations. You know and we have how to books for the for the center to get started and abortion minded abortion vulnerable materials if he’s coming in he’s considering abortion or she’s considering abortion you know to change his mind or to encourage him to step up and stop it. So we have resources like that, written resources in the training and hopefully we can come come alongside the centers to to equip them as we call establishing equip. Equip them to have coaches on staff volunteer coaches to engage the young men how to engage young men and then try to somehow help them work with abortion minded, abortion vulnerable you know men as well, OK?

Jacob Barr :

And so when it comes to having a men’s program, it seems like there’s a big contrast between telling someone to figure it out or just to go ahead and do it. And then it should be common sense compared to giving them a road map or giving them like a playbook of how. Here’s how you can do this, and here’s some. You know, tips and tricks on how to set up this men’s program and some ideas and making it so that they don’t have to figure it out. Yeah and and then once they do it, it might feel like common sense, but it may not really be there because you have to essentially still figure out what to do.

Tony Trammell :

And so, yeah, some centers will. They want to start a men’s program, They’ll start it they’ll get men to come in to be coaches. But if they don’t give them something to work with, curriculum, streaming resources, videos, whatever it may be, and they have to give them something to work with that they can use with the young man, if you just put them out there, you know, like a sitting in the war without a gun.

Jacob Barr :

Ok, yeah or or maybe building a house with the hammer.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, yeah. You probably can’t say gun these days, So I apologize if no lawsuits against Jacob here.

Jacob Barr :

It’s like, yeah, it’s like sending someone to use a tater box with no tater.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, right yeah you can’t build a tater tater box without some nails and wood. Yeah, yeah. Yeah that would be difficult, but. Without a hammer, Yeah, without a hammer. Or these days, a a good cordless screwdriver that’s what I yeah, exactly. That’s my weapon of choice. Yeah, exactly. But if you don’t do that, your rate of failure is much higher. We had a lady who stopped by earlier saying if this is working for other people, we don’t want to try to reinvent the wheel. If somebody else is working, if something is working with somebody else, that’s what we want to learn from.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, I’m a big fan of recycle like if an idea works at one place, let’s recycle it somewhere else or another way of saying is copy, paste and reuse.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, yeah, I do a lot of that.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, I mean, that’s really by making the curriculum, you’re inviting someone to duplicate the effort that’s already been put in and essentially just a copy and paste and then rebrand and reuse. Allows for someone to benefit from weeks of work to put it together and then months and years of tweaking and training and using and going back and polishing it back, and then for someone to then be able to use all of that effort, they essentially can skip a lot of the learning curve.

Tony Trammell :

A lot of the hardships of like, well, that didn’t work, yeah, but you know, every center is different and some stuff works, some stuff doesn’t.

Jacob Barr :

Well, that’s true too.

Tony Trammell :

I I always tell people right at front i am not an expert, I don’t have all the answers, but I have some experience learning how to do something and not to do some how not to do it, but also engaging with a lot of centers that I have now over the years. I can, you know, share experience, what their experience is and it saves centers a lot of time they don’t have to go through the stuff that works and doesn’t work and the foundation’s already there for I think it helps them they should, probably.

Jacob Barr :

Try the ideas that have worked somewhere else first, yeah, before trying an idea that’s untested or maybe failed last time it was tried. Yeah, I would say start with the ones that are more likely to succeed is a good general idea, Yeah.

Tony Trammell :

Learn from the ones who are doing it successfully. Yeah and not that I’ve always done stuff successfully, but I’ve tried to learn from other centers and other places and then pass that along i’m like a clearing House of good and bad information.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, and I feel like I’m in a similar boat where I often consider myself the librarian, where I’m trying to collect these good ideas from different clinics. And then, and that’s actually sort of like why I’m doing this podcast is I’m trying to take a really good idea. That is not common it’s not everyone’s using it it really needs to go from 10 % of throughout 10 % of clinics to all clinics yeah. And so that’s why I’m essentially sort of the goal of this podcast is to highlight and amplify and magnify good ideas, God’s fingerprints, and ways of helping clinics reach their mission and goals better.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah, learning from each other and to be encouraged at the same time, yeah, that’s great.

Jacob Barr :

But yeah, so I think this is really good for those who want to learn more about dadhooddadhood.org Tony is a stand up guy and he has some really good material on his table here. If you contact him, he probably can send it to you in the mail. Yeah, and.

Tony Trammell :

Everything we do is like a PDF download.

Jacob Barr :

And his table is also very masculine for being at a principal clinic conference he’s the only one.

Tony Trammell :

Sporting PVC pipe holders for the for the these guys here, these hold the books up that can be heavy duty. Like I said, there’s nothing pretty or you could run water through those if you had to yeah, yeah, absolutely we can make a fountain back here and, you know, we run a water hose up here we can really do some amazing stuff.

Jacob Barr :

You know, I was just thinking it’d be really smart for one of these vendors to have a Keurig coffee machine with some lots of water and lots of keurigs.

Tony Trammell :

I think somebody does oh, that’s that’s somewhere that’s pretty smart because that would be like, you know, now they, they don’t have all the hoses and dispensers, but you have.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, you could you could make it so it could be a little more industrial.

Tony Trammell :

I can go and borrow the water tank back here and hook it up and that would draw more people. So we could try that.

Jacob Barr :

Might bring a leak.

Tony Trammell :

It’d be messy.

Jacob Barr :

We would turn off Booth. A booth into having a plumbing issue.

Tony Trammell :

That’s good, but when they look manly.

Jacob Barr :

Very manly.

Tony Trammell :

A big plumbing mess, but it’s been there.

Jacob Barr :

All right well, I think that’s, yeah, I think this is great thank you for your time. Sure thank you for sharing and thank you for, yeah, ministering to Prancy clinics for two decades, I guess.

Tony Trammell :

And yeah, and we’re still going and it’s cuz I’m old not necessarily the experience what my company.

Jacob Barr :

Is the same age.

Tony Trammell :

We just turned 21 so I’m in the same boat of, yeah, and you’re not that old.

Jacob Barr :

44 I don’t know.

Tony Trammell :

Yeah so you started young?

Jacob Barr :

It did.

Tony Trammell :

I’m a lot older than 44 but I won’t say. You’re probably 45 yes, yes, every bit of it and then some the.