The ProLife Team Podcast | Episode 37 with Stephanie Jacobson | Talking about Healing from Trauma

The ProLife Team Podcast
The ProLife Team Podcast | Episode 37 with Stephanie Jacobson | Talking about Healing from Trauma
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Listen to Stephanie Jacobson and Jacob Barr talk about healing from trauma – primarily the trauma of abortion.

Summary

This is Jacob Barr, and I want to share a factual summary of a podcast dialogue I had with Stephanie Jacobson on the Pro-Life Team Podcast. In the podcast, we discussed Stephanie’s personal journey of healing and hope after experiencing the trauma of abortion. Stephanie, hailing from Kansas City and recently moved to Florida, has had two abortions in her past and began her healing journey about five years ago. She’s now involved in post-abortive work and is considering starting her own ministry called Bulletproof.

Our conversation explored the importance of healing from abortion trauma and the role of pregnancy clinics and resources like H3, a hotline service that Stephanie is involved in. H3 serves as a vital link for women across the U.S., offering support and guidance through their trauma. We delved into the intricacies of post-abortion trauma, differentiating it from the trauma of miscarriage and discussing the unique challenges faced by women and men in these situations.

Furthermore, we talked about the impact of abortion on a larger scale, affecting not just the individuals directly involved but also their extended family and community. Stephanie emphasized the need for personal responsibility and healing in these circumstances.

Throughout the podcast, Stephanie highlighted the role of faith in her journey, illustrating how spiritual beliefs can shape one’s path to recovery and offer solace. We discussed the challenges and triumphs of starting a new ministry, with Stephanie sharing her vision for Bulletproof, a ministry inspired by her personal experiences and a vision from God.

The podcast was a deep dive into the emotional and spiritual aspects of dealing with abortion trauma, offering insights and hope to those who have undergone similar experiences.

For this podcast, the relevant hashtags would be:
#ProLifeTeamPodcast, #AbortionHealing, #PostAbortiveSupport, #TraumaRecovery, #SpiritualJourney, #HopeAndHealing, #PregnancyClinics, #FaithBasedHealing, #BulletproofMinistry, #StephanieJacobsonStory.

Transcript

The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.

Jacob Barr :

Welcome to the pro-life Team Podcast i’m Jacob and I’m here with Stephanie and we’re going to talk about her, her story of brokenness and finding healing and how she has continued on past healing and inviting others to find healing and hope and restoration and how she’s also starting a new ministry called Bulletproof. So Stephanie, I am so glad that you’re here thank you and would you introduce yourself as if you were talking to a group of executive directors of pregnancy clinics who may or may not know you? How would you introduce yourself to a group like that?

Stephanie Jacobson :

My name is Stephanie Jacobson and I am from Kansas City, missouri i’ve just moved to Florida. I am not new into the post abortive work, but I’ve had two abortions and so I have been on this journey for a very long time. But I began my healing about five years ago and God has brought me to a place that I’m doing a lot of different things at this point but he’s pushing me in a direction of maybe starting my own ministry and working with the women and men through the trauma of abortion.

Jacob Barr :

So let’s talk about healing from trauma. So if someone if a precis clinic wanted to help women who have experienced abortion, what would you what do you what would they need to hear? Possibly as the some of the first few ideas of how to how to achieve that. Let’s say they well let me let me start actually let me ask you a different question if a precis clinic has a post abortive healing retreat, OK, how might what you’re doing with H3 or this new ministry idea? How would that pair or go with or be different or the same as maybe one of like a post a board of retreat experience like I’m wondering how what you’re what you’re doing with H3 or your new Ministry, how that might, yeah, how might it fit within that space?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok first of all, you have to find the women. Ok and so that’s kind of where H3 comes in it’s the umbrella for all posts for all pregnancy resource centers it fills in the gaps when they’re not on the phone lines that we answer the phones. So I’m a phone coach on there.

Jacob Barr :

So when someone, when someone who needs help calls the H3 national hotline, they would talk to Someone Like You.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Correct.

Jacob Barr :

And then that would possibly be a way to connect. So tell me what yeah, So what’s their journey look like so they pick up the phone, they got the phone number and they call, then where does that go?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Well, we have a virtual phone line which all of our phone coaches are all over the United States so we’ve had calls from every single solitary state that I may be in Florida, they might, I might get a call from California. So when they call us every phone coach has had an abortion. So we immediately can hear their story. 2:00 in the morning, midnight, whatever time we wake up and we answer their call and we hope to get them to a place where we’re going to be able to collect their data, to be able to put it into our database, to be able to get them an email and get them back to the pregnancy resource centers that’s closest to them so they can walk through the trauma with them.

Jacob Barr :

Ok, yes so it sounds like you’re effectively like, maybe like the option line for the abortion healing hotline for women who are who are seeking help and then receiving help while also being connected or shared or the baton is being passed to the local pregnancy clinic. Ok so it’s sort of like you’re the you know, it’s like the doorway for someone who is seeking abortion healing help. And then they can experience the Bible study version of you know, that experience or the retreat version of the experience and they continue on. Ok.

Stephanie Jacobson :

But we also deal with women that are looking to have an abortion. A lot of women will call and say, I want to know if you’ve had one, then what did you go through and what? And so we’re on call twenty four seven and also every day of the year so Christmas, I’ve gotten phone calls on Thanksgiving and it’s, you know, it’s heartbreaking and yet I know I’m doing a service to these women i’m also doing a service to the pregnancy resource centers. So, you know, nobody wants to work on Thanksgiving, nobody wants to work on Christmas. But you know, even during what we were doing here, I keep an earpiece in my ear. I always can i was on call today. So you take a call wherever you are and you’re able then to get that back to our database, which then gives them, give us the ability to send them an email. It is still up to them to make that phone call to the pregnancy Resource Center or a virtual Resource Center that we have that that’s available to them if they want to do it online. But the trauma they’re going through right there at that moment and a lot of times when they go in to get a sonogram from a pregnancy Resource Center, they’ll walk out that day if that Resource Center will put our palm card in their hand, they go home and at midnight they’re struggling again. They see that card and they call us. We’re able then to talk to them in their moment of trauma and then calm, hopefully walk through that with them however long that takes and you know we try to keep it as short as we can, but we’ll we’ll walk them through wherever they are right there at that moment and hopefully get them back to maybe where they were that day or virtual or something.

Jacob Barr :

So when someone needs, when someone calls, how do I? How do you identify that they are in need of trauma healing or how do you identify that they have trauma?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok well we identify where they’re where they are in the process so if they’ve had an abortion, it’s pretty simple you just can you tell me your story? Where are you what are you safe? Do you have, you know, you ask certain questions to make sure they’re in a safe place sometimes they’re driving, sometimes they’re.

Jacob Barr :

Oh wow, that would be dangerous to deal with trauma while driving I.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Think it’s dangerous and we have to make sure that they’re in a in a safe place the other thing is I’ve, you know we get calls when we’ve gotten calls gotten calls in the middle of their abortion at home with the medical abortion we’ve had. I’ve gotten those phone calls myself. So it’s very you talk about trauma that trauma is in the you’re in the middle of the trauma and so at that point we get them to the reversal pill if we can. We always give them that number, you know where we’ve got those resources on hand. So it’s really good to see all the resources that are available to us and you know our main thing is to get them to a safe place making sure that they can take that next step. We’ve had phone calls i took the phone call where a woman had a baby that she had in a in a medical abortion and did not know what to do with the baby, wrapped it up and put it in the freezer and was asking me what do we do with this so I had to call my executive director and say we’ve got a situation so, you know, there’s times when I don’t know exactly what to tell them. And so we do gather their information so that we can then get back to them because we have someone follow up with them within 48 hours. We send them an email follow up within and then 48 hours and then they’re able to ask questions then to our follow up woman and she’s amazing with them and she’s read all my notes or read all of our notes and she knows what the situation is. It’s really. I mean, I’ve taken over 250 phone calls from women now.

Jacob Barr :

How long does the average phone call experience last?

Stephanie Jacobson :

It can be 15 minutes that’s very short oK. I don’t want to tell you how long I’ve been on the phone sometimes with women.

Jacob Barr :

But I think you know executive directors might want to know like what’s the range like I would expect it’s probably is it maybe 45 to an hour and 15 on average or?

Stephanie Jacobson :

I had one tonight that was 37 minutes oK, so.

Jacob Barr :

Is that typical or normal?

Stephanie Jacobson :

That is what we try to keep them at i’m not very good at that because if I’ve got somebody in trauma, I will, I will take them, try to take them down the road of giving them a purpose of why they’re doing certain things and why they’re here and especially if they have a faith base that’s one of the questions that I asked Do you have a faith base and, you know, a lot of them will say, no, I don’t. So you go the route of science or you go the route of then. So why are you? You know, what can I help you with? And so sometimes you don’t feel like you can help them, but they want to know they’re not alone. This is, this is the purpose of us having a ministry. Women, men, whoever’s in trauma, they want to know that they’re not alone in this.

Jacob Barr :

So if they yeah, so let’s say a woman says, I don’t have a faith because it feels like if she says she does have a faith, that leads to a whole different question so how effective or what’s it look like to provide trauma healing without Jesus as one of those. One of the ingredients or you know, the main ingredient perhaps?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Right that’s difficult sometimes because we have to navigate and try to bring them back to the fact that this baby was actually a beating heart. Sometimes i’ve had a phone call even recently a woman that was science like she was based in science so I took her through the questioning of was this a child And she’s like, well I’ve been pro-choice all my life And I said, but was the heart beating so what happened was i asked her, I said, do you do you believe that in the birth canal that this baby, when it comes into the world that it’s a baby yes oK, So you take it back from there and you allow her to answer these questions in her mind. And then if it’s not a beating heart, then why would you need to abort this child if it’s not alive? So they then start to understand that this was a real living breathing not breathing, but you know, real living entity.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, and it could be, it could, you know, he or she could have a name, you know, there’s identifying features. So what’s the difference between the trauma of abortion to maybe like the OR do you i’m not sure if you know the answer to this, but compared to the trauma of a miscarriage, how did those differ and how do those maybe? How are those similar perhaps?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Well, they’re both loss, so you need to deal with the loss, OK. And I think in a in a miscarriage, we haven’t looked at loss for miscarriage like we should because we haven’t treated it as life. We treated it i’m sorry. And that I had two miscarriages. I’ve had two abortions, so I’ve experienced both of those. And in abortion, you come to a place of I did something to ’cause this in miscarriage your body is naturally doing something and so you have a little bit different trauma. It’s not the same, but they’re both loss. So we as pregnancy resource centers have to deal with loss in overall. But when we’re dealing with abortion, we have to OK, as opposed to board of Mother. I have to take full responsibility for what I did. There’s no healing if we don’t get to a place where we take full responsibility and it’s the pregnancy resource centers post abortive ministries or whatever, you know that they walk them through it is it is not there. How do I say this it is not their job to make that person believe. However, if you put the right pieces together in front of them, they’re going to start to understand and there’s so many good ones out there. Forgiveness set free. You know concerning the secret, there’s lots of different post abort of ministries that walk through this with these women. But it’s the woman that has to come to a realization no matter what put them on the table that they still walk through the trauma they were there. That was their trauma and they have to take responsibility for it. That’s the hardest thing for a post abort of women to understand, so.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, and it feels like or it seems like and someone’s abortion minded. If she goes to a Planned Parenthood, there’s an 8090 % chance that abortion will be the outcome. And if she goes to a pregnancy clinic, there’s an 8075 seventy 80 % chance that she’ll choose life. And so the number one cause of abortion, I think is the person you talk to, or the number one cause for life is the person you talk to sure the number one you know.

Stephanie Jacobson :

That’s why we have to get the word out there that this we’ve been, we’ve been educated with lies. Ok, so how do you get the word out there how do you make these women understand? It’s like a woman that I was talking to said I’m pro-choice and I said OK, did you hurt? And she said I’m hurting now. And I said whether you believe that it was your right to take the life of that child or not, we still got the carnage of the woman from, you know, 1973 to now. So one abortion, 1 abortion effects 30 people. That’s the statistic.

Jacob Barr :

Ok, who are the 30 people being affected?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Well, I wrote mine out. Yeah, mine were over 50. Ok on one abortion. Ok so and it affects generation to generation, yes.

Jacob Barr :

The grandparents sure who else would be on that list siblings siblings OK.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Aunts, aunts, uncles, yeah, their children, future generations. You can’t look into that because they’re not there, but you. Mine was over 50. I have a large family. It’s if you think of the.

Jacob Barr :

Family tree effectively the life of a person is it you know essentially could have an entire branch branching absolutely. You know it’s really in the end it sounds like, you know it’s more than a loss of a tree it’s more of the loss of a future forest. And so the that’s.

Stephanie Jacobson :

A good.

Jacob Barr :

Point or the OR the current yeah family structure has now been you know who yeah out of the out of those who are affected the trauma seems to probably touch probably the 30 or 50 yeah in a way.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok, so.

Jacob Barr :

And I’m not sure about that, but maybe you can speak to well because the woman who’s receiving trauma the father. What if we?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Well, and then you’ve got two sides of that family. So the father’s family, you’ve got, his mom and dad you got, you know, so when I was thinking, at first I was just thinking about my side of the family, but then I started adding his side of the family in and it’s like and you don’t know who it’s all going to affect because then you’ve got, I’ve got 14 grandchildren, these 14 grandchildren will never know their aunt and uncle that are gone. So will they know about them yes, they will. But they’re gone. And so their children and their children’s children, you know, you don’t know. So yeah.

Jacob Barr :

So do you have fathers or dads or men do you have men calling age 3? Absolutely really absolutely what it How? How might you handle a call from a man? How might that be different or the same as a woman who calls in?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Sure well, some of the same questions in the beginning, just to make sure they’re safe, make sure that we’re on the same page that you know, why are you calling, but we have men on age 3, so.

Jacob Barr :

You might route them to we do a man.

Stephanie Jacobson :

We do. I will take the information I can if they’re willing. Sometimes they’re not sometimes you have to go ahead and talk through this with them because you don’t know if they’re going to give you their information you don’t so you have to get, you have to just like pregnancy resource centers, there has to be a safety safe feeling for that person. And we do try to route them to them as quickly as we can though, but they have to call them back. That’s the only thing that we have that sometimes these men, if you know that they’re going to get off the phone and they’re not going to call back, then you might go ahead and continue the conversation. So we have. We have.

Jacob Barr :

So it sounds like you have your the women volunteers take fielding the calls. And is that mostly because a majority of people who are calling are women?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Yes.

Jacob Barr :

What % of the callers are men is it like 5 % or is it?

Stephanie Jacobson :

You know, I don’t know.

Jacob Barr :

But something small, it sounds like.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Compared to the women, yes. Ok yeah, but I’m able to get a hold of our in within 24 hours and they can get back within ASAP.

Jacob Barr :

What is the danger of not dealing with trauma like what does that lead to? Like what is what is the consequences or the risk of not when you know like what would be the urgency or the importance of dealing with trauma.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Can I go back to the one in 30 sure oK, so the statistic is and I didn’t make the statistic up this is on the books. One abortion effects 30 people. So since 1973 we’ve had almost 64000000 abortions correct. Ok, so you take, you think 30 people oK, No big deal, right. All right. I mean, but then you. I know, but.

Jacob Barr :

You multiply or compound that with.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok, and here here’s the thing. A lot of people don’t want to take the 64000000 women. It’s like, well, I you had two abortions i’ve known women that have had up to 12 abortions. So that trauma is to just that woman. But I am here to tell you that both of those abortions were different. I had to deal with both of them differently they had different fathers. They had different feelings i married the first one’s father the second one, i didn’t i had a different feeling for that second one so what the trauma from the second one was different than the trauma from the first one so when we try to say, well, let’s only take a third of these women and you know, you can’t because I had to deal with both abortions in a different manner. Does that make sense? Kind of sort of it sounds well.

Jacob Barr :

There’s, I think there’s a term well there there’s a term and it came from a heartbeat in depth day from like four years ago it was called like compounded either it was the word compounded trauma or it was like when you have trauma on top of trauma and it creates a different I think it was compound trauma and it sounds like if you have a trauma and then you simple and you add more trauma to it it’s not like it’s still the same now it’s more complicated to correct consider or to work through or to figure out.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok, so that’s why I take every abortion individually. And so you’ve got the 30 people that an abortion effects take that by 64000000 you get one billion eight hundred million people. So one of the main trauma effects or symptoms from abortion is anger. Our country is very angry. Ok, we only have 333 million people as of the 1st of January 2021 in the United States of America. Every person in the United States of America has been affected by abortion now, is abortion the national sin no, it isn’t. It’s my sin to deal with. You have your own sin. Next person has his own sin. So my trauma is not going to my trauma is going to be from the abortion your trauma may not, you may not have the trauma that somebody else has. But trauma has to be dealt with individually. That’s why it’s important for these women and men to call to get help when they’re looking for something but looking for help they’re in this trauma zone,

Jacob Barr :

So when it comes to trauma, the trauma of abortion, is it tied to not speaking the truth or not confessing or is it tied? What would what would be the action of exposing the healing or bringing the healing is it a matter of confessing or is or is it something? How would you describe the you know, the steps or actions that someone could take to you know to find healing if it was as a believer of Jesus for that side of the audience who’s seeking help?

Stephanie Jacobson :

That’s the part I like the best because when someone who is starting to feel the effects of the abortion, it took me 40 years, OK, my abortions and it was actually 38 years but at 40 years, God said 40 has a significant number. It’s a significant number in the Bible, 40 means captivity, but it also means deliverance. So two years ago God said you have you have a deliverance from this so but what was the deliverance and you’re asking me, how do you get to that point?

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, it sounds like the question I should have asked is how do you start seeking like what is that what, how does that start the seeking for help or healing?

Stephanie Jacobson :

So abortion undermines the fabric of the family, which undermines the fiber of the nation. So abortion undermined everything that happened in my Life, OK?

Jacob Barr :

So like as if it sabotage what you’re trying to do.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Well, you parent differently. You may hear a sermon differently. I go home, I said in church. And I try to hear what the pastor saying, and I go home and think I’m going to implement this in our family but I haven’t told anybody about that deep, dark, dirty secret.

Jacob Barr :

So it’s like as if you have like special lenses that all everything you’re thinking or hearing or seeing is running through the filter of I have an abortion that I haven’t confessed or shared. And it’s like it’s like having like this weight does it feel like a weight?

Stephanie Jacobson :

You don’t know that that’s what it’s coming from because you’re in this bondage you’re in a bondage of lies. Ok, so when you want to say something, and I did, I wanted to say something and I couldn’t because the Church. I was raised in church. How could you have done something i was saved when I was five years old i had Jesus in my heart since I was.

Jacob Barr :

Five, So the church may not have been a safe place to share.

Stephanie Jacobson :

It wasn’t a safe place, Yeah. It was not a safe place for me so.

Jacob Barr :

Who was the first person you shared your story with? Or do you remember the first person?

Stephanie Jacobson :

I do oK, I do. There was a man that actually was in my church, and so he had moved to North Dakota and was fighting abortion back when I was having my abortion. Ok i knew that he had been put in jail. He’d been put on the House arrest.

Jacob Barr :

Fighting abortion and what?

Stephanie Jacobson :

This was.

Jacob Barr :

Years before.

Stephanie Jacobson :

It was OK to fight abortion.

Jacob Barr :

What was it like an activist, perhaps?

Stephanie Jacobson :

He was on the sidewalk they arrested him he’s one.

Jacob Barr :

Of the worst people.

Stephanie Jacobson :

He wasn’t. No he was praying. No, this was back like this was back in 19.

Jacob Barr :

90.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Three. Yes, they took him and not yelling. No, this was. That’s so.

Jacob Barr :

Bizarre.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Well, because sidewalk advocacy back then was not side you could not advocate on the sidewalk back then. Ok. This was before any of this was OK and available.

Jacob Barr :

So 40 or?

Stephanie Jacobson :

42 years ago.

Jacob Barr :

So that would have been 8. Is that 80?

Stephanie Jacobson :

No, it was in seventy eight. Seventy seven, OK yeah so Roe V Wade was five years old at the time when I had my first abortion.

Jacob Barr :

Ok. That was 73 so 7877 correct. So who is the first person you asked or you shared your well, You. How did you share and who was it?

Stephanie Jacobson :

I was hurting. It was probably, and I honestly don’t know the timeline on this, but I was misdiagnosed with bipolar because of the anger that I had in fact, the way I know it was misdiagnosed i know that you asked me a different question this, but this leads into this makes sense so I had, we’ve been married for about 8 years and there was this i had so much anger in me that I didn’t know where it was coming from i was angry at my husband i was angry at my children i was angry at myself i was angry at God i was angry at everything. And I was trying to figure it out there were no pregnancy resource centers there were no post abortion ministries there was nothing to help. I didn’t know where to go there was no place to go. So I knew this guy. I’ve been misdiagnosed with bipolar and the reason I know I was misdiagnosed was because I they put me on lithium and I about died i mean, I was not working i felt dead, I then.

Jacob Barr :

So when someone, when someone doesn’t have the faith piece of Jesus, do they sometimes get misdiagnosed still today?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Well, the possibly the interesting thing is I still know the doctor that misdiagnosed me. He’s a friend. And I went to him about six months ago and I said, did I ever tell you that I had abortion? And he said no. I said do you know that you diagnosed me with bipolar and he says yeah, that’s been about 20, some odd years ago, 30 years ago and I said yes. And he was very, I love this man to pieces. I said I lied to you. I said you diagnosed me correctly. You diagnosed me correctly because I hadn’t given you all the information. He said you were dealing with unresolved grief. And I said yes. I said, now that I’ve walked through my healing, Now I know that, but I didn’t realize not telling you as a doctor, you didn’t have all the information that you needed for what I was going through at that moment. So you diagnosed me correctly. I don’t blame you for what you did, but it put me on a trajectory that now I’m thankful for it. Now that’s a strange thing. Now I’m thankful because now I know to tell women, look, this is a real thing. You lie. You continue to keep that thing a secret. It’s going to affect every area of your life there isn’t anything that it doesn’t affect it can affect your health. I’ve had women tell me that their kidneys have gone out on them because they were on lithium, because they’ve been diagnosed with bipolar, but they’ve had abortions. So this is this trauma.

Jacob Barr :

So by not, yeah so by not sharing all of your medical history with a doctor, the doctor can make a mistake because of lack of information absolutely but and what? So but do sometimes doctors make that same call even if they know about the abortion, or is that usually a sign that they it’s not maybe.

Stephanie Jacobson :

This is a Christian doctor, so maybe.

Jacob Barr :

It depends on whether the faith or the yes maybe it depends on the Doctor perhaps.

Stephanie Jacobson :

It does depend on the doctor the problem is doctors don’t normally go. I’m not speaking for all doctors. I’m not trying to be, but doctors don’t. I mean, when you go into the doctor office as a woman, they don’t necessarily have you had abortions on the intake form? Not all the time.

Jacob Barr :

And i wonder if they what do they have on that intake form and I wonder if it says miscarriage or pregnancies or?

Stephanie Jacobson :

A lot of times they’ll say how many pregnancies, but I didn’t always put the truth.

Jacob Barr :

Oh yeah.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Because I had five children, but I had 9 pregnancies, so I had two miscarriages. I had eight pregnancy i had two miscarriages and I had two abortions i had twins and I lost 1 twin in utero. So yeah, I’ve had you talk about trauma i’ve had trauma. I’ve had babies, you know, just about anyway, you can have a baby i’ve had abortions, I’ve had miscarriages i’ve had. So the whole picture is, yes, you need to tell the truth you need to not lie about things for your own health but when I realized that something was wrong with me, that this wasn’t right, you don’t feel like this shouldn’t be feeling like this i finally went to a psychiatrist and I said do I have bipolar? And he said after talking with me and giving me information, he is you don’t have bipolar, I said. But I told him that I’ve had an abortion, 2 abortions. So I had one that said yes and one that said no so I’m thinking, OK, how do I go back to my husband and tell him because he is thinking this woman’s bipolar, this is what our problems are. He wasn’t going to believe that. So i went to another psychiatrist and I said, am I bipolar and he said you’re no more bipolar than I am now he may have been bipolar. No, he wasn’t bipolar. He says he’s here, no more bipolar than I am and I went, would you tell my husband, it affected my marriage, my husband.

Jacob Barr :

And I was so poor finding healing, though.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Oh, yes, this was 15 years.

Jacob Barr :

Been trying to identify where you were.

Stephanie Jacobson :

I had no help identifying. Ok, so that’s when I knew that this man had been fighting abortion. I did not know anything about what he had done or why he had gone or i just knew in my mind that he had fought abortion. So I got his phone number and I called him one night. It was late. And I said, can you help me with this i need help. And he said, you need to sit on your daddy’s lap. You need to put your head on his on his chest, and you need to let him forgive you.

Jacob Barr :

As in Jesus your Father, yes, or God the Father.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Yes, that started my healing OK, but I didn’t know what to do with it. I knew that I got forgiveness at that moment, but I still had the trauma. Couldn’t tell anybody, couldn’t give anybody any idea on what was wrong with me. So that continued down that road.

Jacob Barr :

So how do you when it comes to post abort of women in this country how and looking at your story and. what? What kind of healing? Or what How is it, what is it like to help other women help find healing like, you know, based on your story being difficult and hard and seeking healing and finding healing and then but what’s it like to offer healing to others Like how did because I feel i mean, it feels like you’ve been equipped to help others that who have come who have also gone through difficult times and what is that like? I mean, I’m assuming it’s a good thing or a really good thing as you know, to help others sort of find their way through this darkness or this time of trauma. So how would you describe what that’s what that’s like to help others?

Stephanie Jacobson :

The Lord says that he comforts us so that we can comfort others he binds up, he told me i’m going to bind up your wounds so that in the binding up of your wounds you will know how to bind others wounds. I was bound by the Father. He showed me who he was. He gave me at the foot of the cross my son was forgiven, so he bound me up. I knew what it was because he did it personally he did it for me so that I could then become the comforter for others. That doesn’t mean that I comfort others i show other people who the comforter is.

Jacob Barr :

So you’re so you’re reflecting or almost like a road sign saying go to the foot of the cross or go to your father and rest at his feet or give him a hug or something along those lines perhaps.

Stephanie Jacobson :

And Jacob, you know that is for any sin. And i say that because we like to think in this country that abortion is our national sin we are, we are fighting this we’re fighting this we want, we want revival from this, you know, and I believe that God is going, I do believe God is gracious even at this moment, just holding back because he could, He could take us all out in one little blink of an eye, right.

Jacob Barr :

He could remove his protections he could he could. He could remove blessing he.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Could. But he’s not. He’s not that kind of a father. He allowed me to lay my head on his chest that night. I knew that he had forgiven me. So when I go and I hear a woman’s story, it is so comforting to me to know that I have an answer for her. I have an answer for her she may not want to hear it at that moment, but I have an answer the answer is the foot of the cross. The answer is the cross is the central location. So I have people that ask me, how could you have been a Christian and had an abortion? And I say to them, have you ever sinned? Sin is the pinnacle of who we are and that’s why the cross exists so.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah and I and I think the answer is when you go to a church and the expectation is that there’s going to be judgement when they find out that you send and the and the normalness is to hide your sin through a through a facade or a smile and how are you doing well everything is great, but in reality everything is. Maybe if we said great sarcastically, that’d be more true have.

Stephanie Jacobson :

You heard? Have you heard the song? I wish I could remember all the words, but I’m fine yeah, I’m fine. I’m fine, but I’m not. I’m broken.

Jacob Barr :

I haven’t heard that one.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok going to play that, play that for you after the after the podcast because you gave me a great one today, a great song today but this song is we go to church it’s a lie we put on that facade and these women have to wear a facade. Men that have had these abortions, and the men are right there, One in four, you know, we’re the women, one in four and so they have to go home and filter we’re back to filtering it through that deep, dark, dirty secret that they can’t discipline they can’t love their husband, They can’t. You know, it all is affected.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, and like, not letting it get healed just makes it.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Stay it does.

Jacob Barr :

It’ll continue to exist and possibly infest it does but there’s a verse my favorite verse in the Bible is James five sixteen where it says confess your sins one to another so that you may be healed and the prayers of a righteous person availeth much. And so I feel like there’s a lot of, you know, when you share your sin not just with God, but you share it with another person and then they pray for you there, you know there is healing from sharing your sin with other people. Correct and then that.

Stephanie Jacobson :

They may be healed by hearing your story. They may walk.

Jacob Barr :

Or at least they might be invited, i think more so than them being healed they might they would be invited.

Stephanie Jacobson :

There you go to.

Jacob Barr :

Do the same.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Yes, because.

Jacob Barr :

Which lead to them being healed and not agree, but they need to confess too.

Stephanie Jacobson :

So my sin is abortion yes, my sin is abortion and I should be from being healed and having the joy that God has, I should be the most joyful person in the room. I’ve been forgiven much. And if I can take them to the foot of the cross from my story, then they can look in the mirror tomorrow and go, God, what is my sin that I need to lay at the foot of the cross because revival starts here. It starts in our hearts. It’s not. It is the nation. Yes, we pray for the nation to be revived we need a revival we need. But revival starts when we will lay our sin at the foot of the cross. And then God can use that. Because you’ve got a circle of influence of people that I do not have. I’ve got a circle that you do not have i asked, Lord, why do I need to write a book i don’t even like to read that much. And he said, because your circle of influence is who I’ve given to you. So it may reach more than that, but we need to take that responsibility so your sin may not be abortion, but maybe it’s pride and anger against these women that have had an abortion. So which one weighs more? The pride and anger that you have against these women or you’re scared to give them, you know, any kind of forget you to forgive them. God says you don’t forgive your brother, who you do see, you know so is that another no?

Jacob Barr :

We’re still good.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Different dots. So OK, So what is the sin that you carry? That is your burden. What is that? So I love the fact that people are praying for these women. I love the fact that we have people that are advocating, that are understanding these women need to know that they have a safe place to land at the foot of the cross. And it’s because my sin is equal with your sin at the foot of the cross. There is no level at the foot of the cross.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, we’re all broken vessels we’re all equally, you know, we can’t hold water. We’ve got cracks.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Everywhere and everywhere.

Jacob Barr :

And.

Stephanie Jacobson :

I don’t want to condemn anyone or, but it’s not condemnation, it’s conviction. Does the conviction land or it should? Or are you condemning someone because you think that their sin?

Jacob Barr :

And I think it really and then I don’t know, there’s probably lots of safe places, but I think the safest place from my experience has been a well small slash intimate men’s group where we can share with each other you know, when we come together as a group, we’re able to share things. And when one person shares about their struggles and their decisions, that invites another person to share. And then when someone else hears these two people sharing, that third person finds it so much easier because they’re not breaking ice By having to share now it becomes like, well, I would like to find that same level of healing and be brave just like these two other guys and so I think small groups are a really good, safe place and the best way to start it is for someone to start it and that essentially that demonstrates how to do it and demonstrates that it’s safe because no longer, you know, instead of thinking I’m going to be judged by sharing now it’s like I would like to, I’d like to be included in.

Stephanie Jacobson :

The healing.

Jacob Barr :

In the confession and healing. And so I think the safest place is usually when someone else takes that brave step and goes first.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Absolutely and so that’s partly what’s happening with these women when they call, I have an abortion story, I can relate to them. You’re not alone you’re in a safe place please tell me your story. Let us talk together. Let me get you some help let me get you an email that will get you to that next step that you can take that you when you’re ready. And that’s that’s part of where I think we need to go with this i think that we are. I mean, you go through the post abortion, I was ready to go through the post abortion healing and then i knew God was calling you to this ministry. The problem is women that don’t want to do what I do in front of a camera or give their testimony out or write a book or whatever it is, they’re like what do I do with this now? It’s your journey. You’ll never not be that child’s mother. You’ll never not be a post abortive woman you have this story what do you do with it? Well, I want to work it off i want it. No you’re forgiven you don’t have to work it off. There’s no condemnation at the foot of the cross it’s conviction that gets you to the foot of the cross and then there’s no the sin is gone god does not remember it. Ok, but what we do is put as pregnancy resource centers and as post abortive ministries. We lose these women. Where do they go they disappear why? Why do they disappear? Because they don’t take that next step. The next step is being able to tell the people that where is where is your biggest ministry it’s with your biggest thing that you’ve walked through with sin. Someone else needs to hear your story now. Is it for this moment at this time? Maybe is it for five years down the road? Maybe your children are small maybe you don’t want to come out with it maybe you do want to come out with it but the problem is you’ve got women that bury that secret they walk out of the door. They bury the secret down deep and it becomes bondage again. So if you don’t tell or you don’t. And I want to be careful because women that want to be healed and then they don’t want to tell their story i don’t say you have to go out and tell your story. But the one thing you have to be willing, God wants a willing heart to you don’t want to go back into the bondage. And sin holds us bondage When we swallow, you know, when we feel condemnation, it’s because either someone has tried to make you feel like, well, I would have never done that i couldn’t have done that. And so you when a woman swallows that, it becomes condemnation.

Jacob Barr :

And I think what you bring or someone on the helpline brings is you’re able to share first which then which then removes. You’re essentially saying essentially it’s almost like setting the stage with humility, saying that I’m not going to judge you because here I am sharing my story and I’m inviting you to Share your story and explaining and so that feels like you’re creating that safe place just like in my men’s group, when one guy goes 1st and then it makes it so that people have that, everyone will then go next because you know, there’s a lot of.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Fear tell you what I got. Let me tell right here and what does fear do?

Jacob Barr :

It makes my world. I’ve got no sin, everything’s great and I’m lying.

Stephanie Jacobson :

I’m fine yeah, i’m fine.

Jacob Barr :

They’ll say all that but not say I’m lying but.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Exactly.

Jacob Barr :

But yeah, like, that’s what a lot of us for training to say is, you know, things aren’t just good, they’re amazing like, that’s what? Like, that’s the rest. If you say anything less than amazing, then what’s wrong with you yeah, what’s wrong with you? Well now.

Stephanie Jacobson :

You’ve got the Instagrams and all of these things that you know you go on and you, I mean all the media stuff that it’s like it’s one-on-one one of the things that the Helpline has helped me do, it’s helped me to work through these things with these women to be able to. Everyone has a story.

Jacob Barr :

Yes.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Everyone’s story needs to be told everyone.

Jacob Barr :

It’s good to be known, and it’s good to know others.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Why do we have the scriptures? We are a continuation of the gospel if we’re not speaking the gospel. The scriptures speak of Jesus.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, and we’re made in the image of God we’re reflections of who God is absolutely and our story includes his fingerprints and his interaction with us.

Stephanie Jacobson :

And if people can see the realness in you, they can. They’ll feel the joy they’ll feel the brokenness, maybe, but they’ll also feel the joy. And it’s like, what does she have? She’s had this in her life she’s had that in her life she’s what does she have that makes her want to tell her story? I’ve got Jesus i’ve got the only thing that will, that will give you peace, that will give you comfort, that will bring joy in your life, that will give you something that you can give to others. I mean, there is nothing else silver and gold have I none. But such as I have give I day in the name of Jesus. Rise up and walk. You don’t think of walking and leaping as being something that is. But we’re all broken. We’re all on that mat. Until someone says it’s OK to stand up it’s OK to tell your story. It’s OK. You’re OK. You’re not OK. But Jesus can make you OK. He will take your broken pieces he will put them back together again. You know, one day I was asking the Lord, I said, Lord, what do I do with this how do I? He said, Stephanie, he said you are broken. He said, But you know, how many times do you overflow? You know, talks about the overflowing of joy, and joy is one of my favorite words to talk about because if someone will see joy in you, it’s something that can’t be denied. So he said he talks about the cup overflowing. He said, how many times does your cup overflow? I’m like, well, not very often, Lord, but I know that you can make it overflowing he’s like, why don’t you break the bottom off of that cup? Why don’t you let me flow through you? Why don’t you be a avenue. So others will know who I am? You will feel me. You will know me. But I’m not. I’m here for you to give away. I’m not here for you to store up, become stagnant. And I’ve that’s one of the pieces of my story that it’s like I no longer can hold Jesus to myself. I want to be a conduit for what he has for me. It’s like that birthing canal that’s a birthing. That baby’s being born into a newness of life we are being born into a newness of life. This is a womb we’re in a womb here we only see partially That baby sees nothing in the womb, forgets everything from the womb can you imagine a baby in a womb that’s being formed that Mama feels that baby kick why did that baby kick me? Because the neurons are you think that’s electrical do you think that baby is feeling the electricity being formed in its body does it hurt it hurts, I don’t know, but they say it does the doctors are saying they can feel pain. Don’t you think those neurons in the brain and the and the heart and the ventricles and everything?

Jacob Barr :

Starts, it hurts the teeth later on it.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Hurts the teeth. So we’re teething, we are in a womb, we are blinded, we don’t see clearly. We are being born into a newness of life. For what? For the next faith that God has for us, which is to be with him. But if you don’t know who he is, and I’m holding the story inside and somebody needs to know Jesus, it’s my responsibility to tell them my story and not be afraid to tell them. Healing is the greatest gift that God has given us from sin, and that is at the foot of the cross.

Jacob Barr :

Ok, so OK, so let’s transition and talk about your new ministry, Bulletproof tell me, TELL. Let’s talk about what? What inspired you to start this and yeah, tell us more.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok, well I’m in the middle of starting this ministry. It’s called Bulletproof and I got the name from a vision that God gave to me which I’ve written about and hopefully have a book out soon. But this vision was so real and I’ve had dreams. But dreams are spiritual dreams are different. You know when you’ve had a spiritual dream and.

Jacob Barr :

How do you know it’s a spiritual dream? I guess i’m not sure how what that feeling feels like, per southeast i know that some dreams feel different, but how would you describe a spiritual dream?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok, a spiritual dream for me is that when I wake up, it’s still there and I know that I have seen something so I’m not a dreamologist or whatever those people are that can tell but i have AI, have a father that loves me enough to let me know in my spirit that this is something you need to pay attention to OK, so I went to sleep one night in the middle of the night, I had this vision and I walked in out to It was an like women as far as the eye could see. There was no end to them and as I watched them, the numbers got bigger. And then more women came in and more women and came in and I’m like, who are you? They were angry and their voices had been cut off there were no voices. No one was speaking it was dead silence. And I’m like, who are you? And I wanted to talk to them, but they didn’t know I was there. I was not in their vision they did not know. And I will looked at them and they all were dressed the same. They had on battle fatigues, They had camo paint on their faces. They were ready to fight i could tell that they were angry, that they were milling around and I’m like, who are you? And as I as I was thinking through, who are they and why are they just milling around and why are they angry what are they angry at? And I woke up and I’m like God, who were those women? Well, all day long it kept pulling at me it’s like, who are you who are you? And the Lord finally said, those are post abortive women and you’re one of them now. This was before my healing. This has been about five years ago. And I got excited because I knew that God had called me into this ministry i didn’t know how i didn’t know when i don’t didn’t know anything, but I had some women that knew that i had called this ministry in Kansas City called if not for grace and I called them and I said this was before the dream and I said I think I’m supposed to come and visit. I didn’t. I just didn’t i needed to take a step, but I didn’t know what my husband had just left and I knew that I needed healing. So gracious, gracious bunch of women. And it was a full year. I had this dream and so I just got excited i’m like, oh, there’s a lot of these women out there where are they? I had no answer for that. I went back to sleep that night. I was back in the same dream as I watched these women, They knew I was in this dream. It was i had tunnel vision at this point so I’m now looking out of my eyes in this dream. I’m looking at them they’re looking at me like, what are we going to do? Like, I don’t know what we’re going to do but I knew I had to do something because they were needing a leader and I’m like, OK, battalions we’re going to put them in battalions. I didn’t know. No. Who are you? You’re an army of women and you have no leader where are we going with this? I look down i’m in the battle fatigues. I touch my face. It’s wet, It’s got paint all over it. I now understand that I am one with these women and I’m watching them and they’re looking at me, and I raised my hand to say something and I couldn’t speak. My voice was severed and I’m thinking, how am I going to lead if my voice has been cut off? Ok, so every post abortive woman feels like their voice is cut off you have no voice. So the next thing you know in the stream, only in a dream can you transport to other places. So sometimes I wish I could do that here, but we were underneath something and I’m like, where are we and I was angry. The anger was so and I had been healed of anger right after my husband left, not three or four weeks god healed me in a dream of anger, and I knew it. I hadn’t been angry, but in this dream I had this anger that was so bad that i was like, where is this anger coming from? But my chin was on my knees and I was crammed into a ball. I’m like, where are we so I look down to my left and I look down to my right, and I’m thinking, how are we going to get out of here, ’cause I’m thinking, trying to think like a leader what does an Italian leader do i don’t know but we got to get out of here. So these women all are in the same situation underneath whatever’s holding us down, I look left, then I look right and I’m like, we’re in rows, Why are we in rows? And I go to turn my head back forward. And we couldn’t stand up. That’s what was making me mad i’m claustrophobic. And I was like, I got to get out of here. I look forward and something almost hits me in the face and I look again and it’s something swinging forward and it comes back and almost hits and hits me in the face again. Like, what is that? It kind of slows down. And I see that it’s little patent leather shoes and white frilly socks it’s this little girl, and she’s swinging her legs back and forth and I’m thinking, what is she doing sitting on top of me? So I look back down the rows and I see we’re in this building of some kind, millions of women in a building. Ok. When I look down, I see other legs in front of me, in front of the women, but they’re not little girl it it’s just legs. I woke up. So yesterday was, who are these women today? Tonight on the next night was, where are we? This second part did not come as quickly as the first part god did not give me that answer right then. And I sat with that for a while, and it was probably a week later, And finally the Lord said, you’re under the pews in the church.

Jacob Barr :

What does that mean?

Stephanie Jacobson :

So one of the hardest places for us to get into to talk. There’s one in four women in the church that are dealing with abortion we are not talking about this in our church. I know that there was a film here tonight they’re talking about the church and trying to get this started in the churches, talking about it. These women are hiding. So I went to the Lord i said what do I do? What do I do this has been five years ago. I’m just now getting to a place where i feel like God’s given me this ministry, this bulletproof this is where bulletproof came from so when you have Jesus, when you can set at the foot of the cross, nothing can harm you these women need to understand that you’re bulletproof. Enemy cannot take away what God does not allow him to take away. I was stripped of everything, OK i was stripped of everything my family, everything. 14 grandchildren, OK. My children love me, but they didn’t understand what was going on. And so God has restored back to me because He told me, He said lay down. Do not fight this man’s way it will lead to death if you allow me to fight it spiritually, it will lead you to your life now, not every woman does that not you, not every woman can do that. There’s different circumstances everybody’s got their own story. But this was mine. In obedience, I did what God called me to do, which was to lay down in that obedience i then was able to hear what God had to say to me. There were no distractions, Stephanie you were your own idol. You’ve got to lay down you’ve got to allow me to work in my time. Now, five years later, this ministry is coming to fruition. It’s not going to be overnight. This is a journey. I don’t know how much longer I have to live i may not be gone i may be gone tomorrow this may be the last time that anybody ever sees my face on anything so but.

Jacob Barr :

It sounds like SO women that call H3 are looking for help absolutely and then people that go through a post abortive program, Bible study, retreat are and essentially let’s say they have Jesus included and they put it at the cross, they’re essentially you know working towards that and it sounds like you’re focusing on helping them in that post supportive space are you helping them get there and then continue or is it mostly just a continuing after reaching that point like how would you in that journey where would you say Bulletproof is working to help or work what’s your where do you feel called to be in that on that road?

Stephanie Jacobson :

I think the trauma that comes from abortion, I think that the trauma is something that women don’t get. They don’t understand what the trauma does. They and I think trauma is, I think we talked about this a little bit trauma is the next thing that we’re going to have to really get people to understand. Abortion is not just about the baby. Abortion is about the trauma that the mother and the father at some point once he realizes what he’s done because he doesn’t understand the connection between him and the baby until he’s got a baby in his hands right and so I just talked to a woman tonight about that. I don’t understand why he doesn’t understand where I’m at because he’s not seen anything he doesn’t understand you’ve got the hormones raging in your body still he doesn’t have anything he doesn’t have a clue. So to get the men on board, they need to understand that this part of the woman’s healing, not that cause a lot of the fathers aren’t still with the mothers now mine was. But so that healing is going to be separate. They’re going to come at separate times they’re maybe never ever going to come together and heal together that’s fine. But the trauma that the woman goes through is something that we as the post abortion ministries need to start letting them know from the beginning of that process, like if they’re in a retreat or if they’re in a Bible study or whatever that this has to be got. Let me, let me, let me go forward for a second. So God does not take us somewhere that he does not prepare us for. So we have to use that analogy we have to use that example and we have to start talking about this from the very first time. Every time I talk to a woman on the phone, this is your journey. This does not stop. This is a journey you will have triggers that will happen you will have things that will come up that you’ll have to deal with. I’m still dealing with things, so you’ll have to post abortion ministries should start integrating that into their curriculum to say, and they do, some of them do and most of them do. But in order not to lose them after they go through the ministry, you want them to understand that this is now their story this is now, especially women that understand who Jesus Christ is. When there’s no condemnation at the foot of the cross, that is where they can stay they do not have to pick it up and go well but this person is going to condemn me this person is going to condemn me. No, there is no condemnation to Christ Jesus. So if you work through Christ Jesus, there’s no condemnation there’s no wall there’s no it’s not there it is a facade. So we live in our lie. We swallow that lie back down we’re not going to tell this person because they may judge me. That’s on them. That’s their sin. That’s not your sin you have already you’ve already put that at the foot of the cross. So the trauma, we’ve got to get these women where they’re bulletproof, OK? They need to understand they’re bulletproof. It’s a it’s a strange concept because you think, but isn’t that counterproductive you’re using bullets to try to bring life, and yet bullets kill no we’ve got the armor of God on this. You know the only thing when it when a when a man went to war and he had armor on, the only thing that was accessible to him was his back. What do we use on our back? What does God put on us?

Jacob Barr :

Let’s see well, the breastplate would be front only, I suppose The shield would that be?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Everything is a frontal thing so you get, you get attacked from the back what is This is not a fair question to you. No, I’m not sure.

Jacob Barr :

What?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Does God put on us he puts on us a garment of praise for the Spirit of heaviness.

Jacob Barr :

I wasn’t aware of that. That’s interesting. Ok.

Stephanie Jacobson :

There’s a scripture that put on the garment of praise. So how do we get out of the condemnation that other people are going to think that they have a right to give to us by putting on the garment of praise they no longer have? When our eyes are fixed on Jesus and we have our eyes on Him, the world is very it’s out of view. We don’t you know the song turn your eyes upon Jesus, turn your eyes upon Jesus and the world will fade from.

Jacob Barr :

Interesting, yeah the posture of praise is often very vulnerable and Speaking of the back is so. But the garment, the garment of praise, doesn’t sound very metallic.

Stephanie Jacobson :

No. However, the enemy doesn’t come around when they’re When you’re praising Jesus, he doesn’t have a place. There is no place for him.

Jacob Barr :

Ok.

Stephanie Jacobson :

So he cannot penetrate your Garmin. Praise mosquito repellent on no mosquito repellent. Now down here in Florida, you need mosquito repellent.

Jacob Barr :

I mean, I’m just saying like, it repels him so.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Absolutely he cannot come against me when I’m in a position of pels. He doesn’t. He has to flee. It does the aroma. And that’s what Christ calls he, that’s what he calls us to. And you know, one day I was standing in church and I had my arms raised and i’m a prayer praiser i praise and worship and when I had my arms in a praise and worship stance, the Lord asked me, he says, where are your arms and I’m like, OK, they’re in the air. What does that mean? What is that a sign of? He says what happens when someone comes across a finish line? They put their arms up in victory so when a man comes across a woman cross the finish line, their.

Jacob Barr :

Arms are raised in victory yeah, take this off because I think it might be bumping into that talk about.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Continuity OK. You’re good. All right.

Jacob Barr :

Whenever you’re Yeah, go ahead, let’s do that again.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok, so when a man comes across the finish line, he or woman in the in a race, they raise their arms in victory, right? He said what other position is that? It’s a position of surrender. So when we surrender to Christ, we have victory in him. Ok, so praise and worship is giving glory and honor to God, and it’s your surrendering. And in that surrender, there’s victory.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah one of the things, one of the I can’t which pastor my church said this but he said when the armor of God like the defensive piece, the shield. He says it’s not, it’s not your faith or your shield it’s you’re using Jesus’s faith, his faith makes up that shield. And so when it comes to like the defensive ability of Jesus’s faith and Jesus’s protection from the enemy’s darts, it’s not in our faith. We’re using his faith as the shield. And because if it was our faith, it would probably look like there’s some holes in it, right?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Very much so.

Jacob Barr :

Or maybe it would be as small as a mustard seed or something.

Stephanie Jacobson :

It would be as small as a mustard seed for me i would Lego Shield. Can I please have that mustard tree i need the tree. I don’t want this.

Jacob Barr :

The Yeah. So yeah so the pastor of my church was describing how we’re using Jesus faith as our shield. And I’m Yeah and so thinking of the concept of being bulletproof, that makes a lot of sense. And so yeah, and I think.

Stephanie Jacobson :

And we also have.

Jacob Barr :

Hiding behind his shield, almost like And he, you know and he and he. There’s verses about him spreading his wings and protection.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Oh, absolutely and.

Jacob Barr :

You know and the and the verse of like you know in Psalms like, you know, the wings don’t sound bulletproof, but when they’re made out of, yeah, but when it comes to like, Jesus’s faith as that covering, that sounds very bulletproof.

Stephanie Jacobson :

So I use Psalm 91 a lot when I’m talking to women of faith on the phone. Because if you take that actually is my 9-1-1 verses that saved my life one night.

Jacob Barr :

Which verse was this?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Psalm 91 OK And it talks about the feathers and the buckler, yeah.

Jacob Barr :

The and the feathers seem very comforting and they are warm and protected from the elements and so and soft.

Stephanie Jacobson :

And it is. And you put your name in anything that refers to you put your name and you start reading it to yourself and some I’ve told the women on the phone, pull out your Bible, get out Psalm 91 put your name in it. Begin to read it to yourself. Find out what Christ says about you, how he’s going to protect you, how he’s going to give you his covering. Those feathers are the most soft thing that a mother can a mother hen or a mother, you know, bird can give to their, but it also protects them from the rain it protects them. Now can their darts get through absolutely. But God is still our protector, and he knows when that’s going to happen. So what happens next? We need to take our thoughts captive. We need to stand against the fiery darts of the wicked. Ok, we need to do that too. By what? Arming our brain and our mind and our hearts with the word of God. Ok, So what does the Bible say about the establishment of who we are? It says that he reached into the miry pit. He pulled me out. He put me on a rock. He established my goings he put a new song in my heart, a song of praise and worship before him. So he’s the one that puts that in our hearts. All we have to do is be obedient and open to him to do that.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah and when it comes to those putting those thoughts at Jesus feet, you mentioned earlier that you had sold everything and you mentioned that God sort of directed that decision. It sounds like as if, you know, when there was the rich young ruler who came in front of Jesus and said, you know, here I am doing these good things, I’m following every law. And Jesus says give away everything to the poor, I believe or you know, give away your things. And he turned around and left, because it was too.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Much.

Jacob Barr :

It was too much, but yet here you are and tell it tell me your story, because it sounds like you had an experience where Jesus said something like that to you.

Stephanie Jacobson :

I have been directed been directive.

Jacob Barr :

Oh, wait one SEC me we want to let’s I don’t know how to go.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ahead let.

Jacob Barr :

Me just make sure it’s not.

Stephanie Jacobson :

I had it, oh, bouncing on that dress.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Is that better I?

Jacob Barr :

Think it’s going to be oK.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Yeah. All right.

Jacob Barr :

So yeah, so tell me how what was your experience with what Jesus may have said to you about that?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Well, I’ve been married for 33 years and my husband left, and sometimes God doesn’t really give you a directive he just directs. So I knew that he was calling me into this ministry because I knew that that’s where my deepest hurts were and I knew I had been healed of that. And so in obedience, when my husband left I knew that God was calling me and I this is exactly what I told him i said use every molecule of me up for you before I die i don’t want to leave anything on the table. And God is my witness he knows that I these were my prayers because I was broken. I was so broken and everything that I thought was mine that I had control over, I saw them slipping away and I saw my friends not have time for me then that’s not that they didn’t like me, they just didn’t have time for me so God pulled them out. I thought, well, those aren’t my idols because God asked me one day, he says, What are your idols and what are you going to do about them? That was at a kitchen table i was sitting at my kitchen table and I thought, my idols, Lord, I got a lot, but I’ve told you I’ll give you whatever you want. And i was at my kitchen window that day and he said OK, so my friends started having not having time for me. My children began to leave the house they started getting married they started having, you know, their own lives and this and that. And then one day my husband left and he goes because I thought those were my idols i’m like Lord, but you gave these to me, he said but Stephanie, idols are not necessarily bad things. So you love these things and I did give them to you, but I didn’t mean for you to idolize them. So as these idols are being taken 1 by 1, I’m saying, oh, that’s my idol oh, that’s my idol. And then he said my husband left and he goes, now who’s your idol? And I didn’t have anybody left it was just me. And he said, and you are your own idol. What is the deepest, darkest sin that all of us have is self idolization, pride or false humility it’s the same animal. You’ve got humility in the middle. You got false humility on one side and you got pride here on the other. And he said, you are your own idol. Get yourself out of the way. I didn’t even know what that meant. I’m like, I don’t know how to do that. He began to teach me how to do it, and I began to listen. I began to hear what he was talking. You know, I would read the scriptures i would. I would had devotionals that I did not put my feet on the ground in the morning until I had read those devotionals, until I had read the word of God, had my mind set on Him, knew that this was the direction that he was going to. Every morning I did this, and you’ll have to read the rest of the book for the rest of that story, however.

Jacob Barr :

It’s a good plug, yes.

Stephanie Jacobson :

I got to get that completely done so when? So when that happened, I began to understand that he was calling me to this ministry. I then called if not for grace, and I said I think I need healing i then had the dream that next year I went to healing it was all in God’s timing. So we always want to go to that next thing and God says, I have pieces that I’m putting together on the outside of this so you have to wait. You have to not maybe sit still, but you have to be still. There’s a difference between sitting still and being still. So being still is being still before the Lord. Sitting still is not doing anything. Now i was doing stuff, but I was also listening and hearing what and I can see and once you start looking for the timing of God, he created time and space for us to see him. Everybody says, oh, it’s coincidence, oh, it’s karma no time and space was created so that we would see God.

Jacob Barr :

That’s beautiful.

Stephanie Jacobson :

So if something happens to you and you’re like, that was interesting, Was it interesting now that was God. So recognizing, you start recognizing those little, tiny things and the big things start happening and you are then able to go, Father, I see you, I see you. And as you see him, you’ll see him more and more and more and more and it becomes this beautiful picture where I can trust that I can trust what you’re saying i see in your word what you’re saying. I see what you’re doing. So it’s got to be, I believe what you’re telling me. So that’s kind of how that all began so.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, so when did how did you experience God, God’s direction or voice saying to go down to 4 suitcases? How did? What did that? What did that look like?

Stephanie Jacobson :

It was remember when I told you that God doesn’t take you some there that he doesn’t prepare you for? Ok, well.

Jacob Barr :

I believe that.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Yes so he’ll begin to start showing you things he’ll teach you will start. Ok, so I knew that I needed to give everything over to him, but I didn’t know how. But I had this desire in my heart to be completely every molecule used up for him. How do you do that? I had to recognize that nothing was mine. In fact, one day I want I needed some finances, OK? And I didn’t want to go back and ask my husband for them because that was not a good thing, not a good place for me. And he said, how dare you not utilize what I have given to you haven’t come back and thanked me for how I have provided for you all these years. Your husband is the tool that I used to provide for you. Come back and thank me for that. And I provided for him by the way, too i provided for him his brains i provided for him his tools i provided for him what he did to provide for the family. So if you don’t go back and thank God for how he’s provided for you through the gifts that he’s given to you to use for him, then he’s going to come back and hold you responsible for that. So I started thanking God for my ex-husband which was the first step in forgiveness. When you start thanking God for the things that he then brings forgiveness in ways that you can’t even begin.

Jacob Barr :

To it sounds like that was really hard to do and it was not something you would what would do naturally or organically, but yet at only out of obedience that would be a decision to make.

Stephanie Jacobson :

It was. It was freeing because now God was providing for me, but he was providing for me the way that he wanted to provide for me, not the way that I thought he should provide for me. So at that point, I started doing some political work in Missouri, and it was i spoke before Congress for the heartbeat bill, spoke before the House, Senate, I mean.

Jacob Barr :

The Texas Heartbeat Bill or the.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Missouri the.

Jacob Barr :

Missouri Heartbeat bill. That one hasn’t passed as of yet it.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Did oh, it did. But it’s in the courts.

Jacob Barr :

It’s in the OK.

Stephanie Jacobson :

It’s being yeah we’re it’s an interesting yeah.

Jacob Barr :

What year was that?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, so that was before or during before your healing?

Stephanie Jacobson :

Yeah, it was. It was or right?

Jacob Barr :

Before or the same time with.

Stephanie Jacobson :

This, all of this is like, the timeline is crazy and I would have never seen myself doing anything political because, like, I had. That’s a long story. Sure you have to read the book. Yeah, OK that’s yeah. So in all of that, as that started to happen, I realized that God had something different. I mean that was part of the filler in between where I am then and now. So it gave me a feel for what the post abortion stuff and the abortion stuff was doing and you know, I then learned why we have abortions like we do on demand here in the United States of America. Because it’s not a law, it’s not a law, it’s a ruling there is no law. I had to come to an understanding i had a I’d written down three pieces on a piece of paper, three names that I wanted to go visit When I went to the Capitol the first time in Missouri, three names. I went and visited the first one and he said, I know the person you need to go see i said, who’s that and he told me the person, the last person I had on the on my list. I said, I’ve got three names you’re one and he’s the other one. See how God prepared me for that day that I was going down, green as green, green, green could be, did not know anything about what I was doing i had a friend going with me, but I went down and I prayed for this man who is now a senator in Missouri, prayed for him as a representative in his office. That started me down the road of he knew that he had an advocate in me he knew that I would come. He knew that I would speak he knew that I would, you know, I mean, it was we prayed for each other. He said I need more of this is what we can do. I mean, we don’t think we make a difference. God makes a difference when we step forward in obedience. God makes a difference he makes a path for us to be used by him in a way that you may think praying for someone is not that big of a deal but this man was like, I mean, he had people coming in and out of his office all the time, But something told me, pray for him right here, right now. Well, it’s God. And he saw it. So God prepares the way he prepares the path, all of that to say this. So I’d gone down that road, all of that had happened. I was like, Lord, what do you want me to do? I was being, you know, I was not working. So my we’d had a business that we’d run and so it was. It was helping to pay for my some of my life at that point.

Jacob Barr :

So when you went down to 4 suitcase.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Yeah, I’m going to go there. So, yeah, go ahead.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, so where?

Stephanie Jacobson :

How did that come about?

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, Where did, What did, How did? Yeah what were the steps that you took to experience, you know, to obey God?

Stephanie Jacobson :

And that was not easy.

Jacob Barr :

It sounds really hard like it.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Was one of those things that I had a house full of stuff. What do you do with this stuff? Well, the.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, What did you do with your stuff?

Stephanie Jacobson :

So my parents had acreage up in Kansas City, 8 acres right in the middle of Kansas City. Ok, they had two houses which I lived in, the little one my mom and dad were 82 and 84 something like that at the time. Now I began to see them deteriorate. My dad said he was going to die on that piece of property. That was where he was going to die and I couldn’t take care of them anymore. So I realized, I mean, all this time God had been putting in the back of my head. I don’t understand where the thought came from. Why 4 suitcases, my summer clothes, my winter clothes, my ministry bag, and my toiletries. That was what I saw. But that doesn’t. I mean, what does that even mean? I mean, where did that come from? I don’t. I can’t answer that question for you because I’m not God. But I knew that God was preparing me for something that was small, that you need to be able to move.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, it sounds like you’re being prepared to live in a in a, you know, the ability to travel.

Stephanie Jacobson :

That was what my thought was but I didn’t know what does that even look like what is it for? So I’ve been my dad got sick, not this last Christmas, but the Christmas before so my dad got really sick so I actually moved in with them to help. My mom was going down downhill. I then could not take care of them by myself anymore my brother was a music minister in Florida. And so I called him and I said I need, I need help. I can’t do this and he said get them on an airplane, bring them to Florida, suitcase in hand. We all got on an airplane. I moved them to Florida. I’ve not taken them back home. I went back home this last summer, sold all their stuff so that they could live down in Florida. They’re not doing well. They’re OK. God’s teaching me through death about him. This is all part of living and we want to we want to whitewashed death. We don’t want to it to be part of life. We want someone else to take care of that is not what God calls us to. He calls us to take care of our parents until we can’t and there’s some there’s sometimes you can’t, but we’ve whitewashed it. So anyway, that’s a that’s a whole nother thing. So I brought them down, went back up to Kansas City, sold all their stuff, and in the process sold all my stuff, which I didn’t have much left. I had already. I had a bed, I had a few things, but I had pretty much gotten rid of everything. I didn’t know what was going to happen i had, I was living in a little room in my parents home trying to take care of them and it wasn’t working got them down here, came down here. I now I rent from some people in our church, have an outside entrance, don’t have a kitchen, and this is exactly where God wants me right now. It’s not fun, but I know I’m in a safe place i’m in a godly home these I’m not with my brother, my folks are with my brother. But the people that I live with, I mean they love Jesus. So I know I’m in a God filled environment and God has got me down to what I could put in my car and bring down to Florida. So is it for suitcases, give or take a little bit?

Jacob Barr :

Sure.

Stephanie Jacobson :

But that’s where I’m at now. So what it looks like from here, I don’t know, and I’m excited to know what the next.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, it it seems like your anchors have been lifted and like the anchor of stuff is a pretty big anchor.

Stephanie Jacobson :

That was one of the most freeing things I have ever done in my entire lifetime i have nothing to hold me down nothing yeah. God is calling me to something that.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, like you know, for you to be able to go somewhere would only be gas money.

Stephanie Jacobson :

And that’s expensive right now, just so you know but my car does get 50 miles to the gallon, So, you know, God has provided that for me yeah.

Jacob Barr :

But I mean, but that but that’s like yeah you don’t have yeah there’s.

Stephanie Jacobson :

No.

Jacob Barr :

Doesn’t sound like there’s a dog.

Stephanie Jacobson :

No.

Jacob Barr :

There’s not a lawn care involved.

Stephanie Jacobson :

No, the only thing that I lament is my 14 grandchildren and my five children and there’s.

Jacob Barr :

Ok, so there’s still some anchors.

Stephanie Jacobson :

I do have anchors i have a beautiful family.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, well i really appreciate your time and sharing your story. And it feels like there’s, you know, we’re here, we are, and you know, on the journey and in the next chapter possibly of your book or some second.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Book not through which.

Jacob Barr :

But obviously, yeah, there’s more to be told and but I really appreciate you sharing about trauma. You know that you know the experience of finding healing through trauma from trauma sorry and through it. And by sharing it sounds like sharing it has it has been medicinal value by helping others find healing and so thank you for helping others find healing and for. Yeah for essentially working with God even through you know and by you know. And it feels like there’s also like these, you know God was present and you know throughout this journey and story and there’s fingerprints of him absolutely. You know, and his love and grace is sort of weaved throughout even these difficult times and I Yeah and it. And it’s just like, you know, why do we go through hard things? And sometimes God is preparing you to help others who are going through hard things perhaps I’m not i don’t understand everything but I feel like there’s a greater story here.

Stephanie Jacobson :

You know Caleb, he told.

Jacob Barr :

Me oh, Jacob jacob.

Stephanie Jacobson :

I keep trying to call you my son in law’s name. Sorry about that truly late it’s.

Jacob Barr :

Very late.

Stephanie Jacobson :

Ok, go back he’s almost retake, keep.

Jacob Barr :

Going.

Stephanie Jacobson :

So he told me the Lord showed me where in binding up the like i said the binding up the others wounds that are binding up my wounds, that he would bind up others through me. And that is a promise that we can all take from this is that when he binds up your wounds, not only do you want to, but you have a responsibility. People find Jesus through their hurts and pains what does a doctor do he wounds you to pull out the infection. He has to wound you. So you’ve got the infection you got a broken arm he has to go in there and set it. He wounds you again, though, opening it up in order to fix it. So that’s what Christ does he wounds us he allows us to be wounded he doesn’t want us, but he allows us to be wounded so that in the binding up of our wounds, we will know how to bind others. He’s done that for me. He’s done that for you sitting here giving people the opportunity to tell their story, That’s binding their wounds. That’s binding the wounds of others you’re an, I mean this is this is part of your ministry. So everybody has a ministry find your ministry and help others. Help Christ in his bringing the sheaves in bringing the flock in and be willing to be used. He will be willing. That’s all.

Jacob Barr :

Awesome.

Stephanie Jacobson :

The way, let us cling to you. They are old ways being home, Jesus says Walk me, lay them down all of your treasures. And then Mom’s telling all your days. I have measures you don’t need all that stuff. I’m your reward. I’ll provide all you need. Children of God, break our hearts. Crush our judgments. Breakdown our dividing world. Teach us your justice, the paper of peace show.

Jacob Barr :

Us your mercy.

Stephanie Jacobson :

For all Jesus says, walk with me in and out all of your treasures Give that mom some it all your days I have measured. You don’t need all that stuff i’m.

Jacob Barr :

Your reward?

Stephanie Jacobson :

I’ll provide all you need. Children of God. Sand is crumbling away where the walk is our foundation surrounded by chaos and. If Jesus is our salvation, sand is crumbling away. The rock is our foundation by chaos, and being Jesus is our salvation. And he says, walk with me, lay them down all of your treasures and I’m upset all your days I have measured. You don’t need all that stuff on your reward. I’ll provide all you need children of God. And he says, walk with me, lay them down. All of your treasures none. It’s gold and I stay the tears his eyes see, eyes see red fears his nails got hands like a good old.