Listen to Neesie Cieslak and Jacob Barr talk about the healing available to those who are post abortive.
Summary
This is Jacob Barr, and I recently had an insightful conversation with Neesie Cieslak on the Pro-Life Team Podcast. Neesie shared her deeply personal journey, beginning with her experience of having an abortion at 14, coerced by trusted adults in her life. This decision led to years of turmoil, but eventually, her path to healing began through her faith in Jesus.
As a follower of Jesus and now an executive director of pregnancy centers in Northern Arizona, Neesie is passionate about supporting women in crisis pregnancies and those who have undergone abortions. She spoke about the importance of creating safe spaces for women to share their experiences and seek healing. Neesie’s story is a powerful example of overcoming shame and finding forgiveness.
She emphasized the need for comprehensive support for women in all stages of pregnancy and post-abortion, highlighting the importance of addressing the broader family dynamics involved. Neesie also discussed the significance of speaking openly about abortion experiences as a means of healing and breaking the shroud of shame.
Through her work, Neesie aims to mentor and assist clients in making informed choices, promoting life as the best option. Her journey from a place of personal pain to one of advocacy and support for others is a testament to the transformative power of healing and the importance of addressing abortion’s impact on all involved.
### Hashtags:
#HealingJourney, #PostAbortiveSupport, #ProLifeAdvocacy, #ForgivenessAndFaith, #CrisisPregnancyCare, #FamilySupportInPregnancy, #BreakingTheShame, #PersonalTransformation, #ProLifeLeadership, #MentoringForLifeChoices
Transcript
The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.
Neesie Cieslak :
Welcome to the pro-life Team Podcast. Today’s episode where we’re talking about the healing that comes from being post supportive let it be where you were coerced and taken advantage of or you have chosen to have an abortion and how to be a safe place for people that are post supportive to gain their healing.
Jacob Barr :
All right so Niecy, I’m excited to have you on the pro-life Team Podcast. Would you introduce yourself as if you were speaking to a small group of Prezi Clinic executive directors?
Neesie Cieslak :
As my name is, I’m Niecy Neesie Cieslak. I am a wife, a mother overall of that i am a child of Jesus. I have been involved in the pro-life movement for many years, but those years started out with me at 14, being on the other side of the pro-life movement, having an abortion at 14 and then my life revolving from there. So that’s what brings me here to this. It’s actually this platform. I am executive director of pregnancy centers in Northern Arizona, and my family and I, our hearts are to serve and to help to save as many lives of babies as we possibly can.
Jacob Barr :
Awesome so I wanted to, yeah, I invite you on here so you could tell us about your story tell us. Yeah so can you share your back story And yeah, just sort of bring us back to how you know how you became part of this pro-life work and with the you know your story of healing and yeah just start us off where you think might be a good place to for us to start.
Neesie Cieslak :
Oh, fantastic. Well, I like I just said in my introduction, I’ll go back to being 14, almost 15 years old. And that is when the choice of having a child or terminating that pregnancy became very prominent to me. And I had a crisis pregnancy and people that I trusted track coaches, my track coach, his girlfriend and his mother were part of this decision to help me continue on the track I was going on as I was a track star actually. And they thought it would be best for me not to be like my family my mother had six children all from different fathers my and that was that was really the flavor Jacob of my family aunts and uncles and there have been abortions in there as well as I came to later find out to learn and I was taken to this clinic and trusting the people the adults in my life. Turns out that the mother signed for me because I was a minor and I went in really thinking, Jacob, that this was not, at this portion of my pregnancy, a baby. Yet i really believed what they told me and so thus went forward with this, trusting them. However, the moment of this procedure, once it was completed, I knew something was wrong i knew that I had agreed to something that was so wrong, and that put me on a path of really destruction. At 14 years old. My life was pretty whirly at that time but after that abortion, i spun out really. I never ran again for that coach. And I knew heading back home on the city bus that life had been taken. And the dread I went into a depression. Now there was no one on that side jacob explaining to me that life had been taken. I knew it deep within me. And at that time I was not a believer in Jesus i was not following God but I knew life was taken from me. From there I ended up finishing school, just barely graduating high school went into the military, but in that again, just so much of A my life was just promiscuous, just out there. Just risk after risk after risk. I actually really should not be sitting here speaking with you because so many times there with the risk that i had taken, there was opportunities or chances that I could have been dead. But it stemmed so much from that time of 14 i got married i ended up coming to Jesus i gave my life to Jesus. I got married and in this little church in Milwaukee, wisconsin they would go out and do things. One of the things, the outreaches were to go to pregnancy center and to, you know, hold up signs and across the street, not a pregnancy center but Planned Parenthood excuse me, A Planned Parenthood. Hold up signs and pray. So I thought, oh, that’ll be a way for me to give back. At this junction no one knew about my abortion, Jacob. That was a secret i had kept to myself because there was just so much shame in me, especially once I became a follower of Jesus. You know, thou shalt not murder and I’m just like, Oh my gosh, I’m a murderer. And Jacob, when I would do that, I would, I would feel, I almost felt like a hypocrite standing on a excuse me standing on the other side of that street and I’m watching these girls go in and these women and I did that like three times And then I couldn’t do it anymore. I just couldn’t do it even though I wasn’t speaking with them. I just felt like a hypocrite. Let’s Fast forward a little bit. Ended up trying some programs for healing from the abortion and plus from a lot of the trauma of my life that I’ve had at growing up and I would quit every single time, Jacob i just couldn’t do it the guilt and the shame was so it was like a just like a shroud over me and lots of years of healing, of counseling, prayer. And I came to a place, actually, just about a year and a half ago i came to a place where God orchestrated me, meeting several people, and I learned a great deal about shame from the trauma you had as a child, which I believe a lot of my trauma as a child is what brought me to a crisis pregnancy for one Jacob and then also trust in these adults to know what could happen if I was to have that baby trusting that they have my best interest in mind and later learning that it was very selfish on their part. However, I ended up learning that I can be forgiven and that there is forgiveness to be had, and that when I for the deeper healing emotionally, I’m speaking emotionally and spiritually, that deeper healing will come with me facing it, facing talking about it with other women. And I actually went through a class called Surrendering the secret and that was about a year and a half ago at the age of 50, almost 51 that I finally felt almost a relief of that burden of the murder. And Jacob, in that time I actually was able to know and learn that baby was a girl and I was able to name her and just do a lot of reflecting and writing to her. And I did i gained that forgiveness from God i know I’m forgiven and there’s a part of me now that just cannot wait until the other side of heaven. When I get to heaven, when I have an opportunity to see my Sailor Rolls face to face. It has really come full circle because now in this new position that I’ll be actually i’ll i’ve been hired on i’ll start in just a couple weeks. Jacob as the as the executive director of pregnancy centers and the idea that I will have an opportunity to mentor help clients that are thinking of abortion to be able to share my story with them and help them to realize that i understand that crisis, that crisis that they’re in. But the reality is that there really is another option and that life is the best choice for their baby and for them and so that’s just a part of that story for me, Jacob.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, it makes me think of very often crazy clinics we we’ve, you know there’s a lot of focus that’s poured on reaching women who are at risk of choosing abortion to try and intercede and provide that well, that voice for providing, you know, looking at looking at the long term, you know, looking at it from, you know decades down the road you’re going to enjoy this decision more so than this one and whereas yeah one decision requires healing the other decision, you know, can help you escape the need for that healing. But I think a lot of times really in the end, you know, we really need to serve women in all situations and all different points in their lives. And that definitely includes women who need, you know, pointing people towards healing after they’ve had an abortion as well as helping people with, you know, parenting and prenatal needs after if they choose, you know, that path And then also helping when they’re, you know, up to that point, you know, helping 14 year olds navigate life i mean what a, you know, 14 year olds were not prepared to mentally out navigate adults because adults are just you know, so much better positioned mentally and just when it comes to age and they’re and it’s just sort of, yeah, it’s really sad when adults take advantage of like that’s really sad when adults take advantage of someone who’s so young and just hasn’t. Yeah so all that to say is I feel like there’s a need for us to take care of people in all situations, not just focusing on. We might have, you know, an area that’s very important, but it overlaps with all these other areas when it comes to providing help and care. What are your thoughts on helping people on different stages and on different paths?
Neesie Cieslak :
Jacob I think that is such a profound statement. It really is. So if we as the as pregnancy centers or people in the pro-life arena, first of all those girls so I was one of those young ladies in extreme poverty, OK in urban Milwaukee, wisconsin and definitely on the edge of being marginalized so to speak. How do we reach those young ladies to help them actually avoid the crisis pregnancy. So that’s one area. And then along the way, you know, so after I have this abortion, I remember just the different people that I was speak to. And so the idea of even the centers coming into the schools if they can, I know it’s different nowadays. It’s a lot different from when I graduated or when I was in high school, you know, 2530 years ago. But voicing that, you know, maybe you’re not pregnant, but maybe you’ve had an abortion and we can help you with that healing. I did not know that the level of healing that I needed because of that abortion until so much further in my life. And so somehow getting in there at in the interim reaching those girls like that and I know a lot of the pregnancy centers are working our programs that way. But then that woman that’s sitting in the churches or the women that are in their offices and things and for me, Jacob, really even as a believer in Christ, I was so embarrassed about the idea of an abortion that I had one. And I’ll tell you, I really believe it’s because it’s really not spoken on very much at all and those women need that care. So I really feel that we as in the pro-life movement really need to be more cognizant of the need for just that either one-on-one or group care for women that have that are still in need of healing and how do we go about doing that. I think there’s several different ways that can happen and like programs like this just getting people out there as we’re talking about this that as people are hearing as you’re having conversations and making relationships with women and abortion comes up. I really encourage people to talk to them asking that question. You know what have you done for your continued healing as an adult woman and then having resources available for them to do so and I think the church plays a big part of that in that. And so from prior to crisis pregnancy, Jacob, to definitely after, you know, in a class that I did, there was a woman in the class that she was, you know, in her sixties and had never had care and she was a part of a church body but had never had care and healing and discussion around these abortions that she had and so she lived a great portion of her adult life hurting because of her choice for abortion so I agree. It’s that care is needed and I and I know that there’s conversations that are happening like this where people are more aware that more can be done and must be done to help the women that have and the men that have been a part of abortion.
Jacob Barr :
And that’s interesting and what? So someone joined the church and she became a Christian but then the secret of abortion is a very powerful secret that you know to be kept or to not bring up and it’s one of those topics that people it’s it is hard to talk about. But at the same time not talking about it prevents a lot of that opportunity for identifying healing and direction for healing. Can you speak a little bit about, you know, the value of you know, what’s it like for someone to. Yeah how does someone provide space or openness for, you know, an invitation for someone to know that this is something worth exploring And how could that be? Maybe not on just like a church level but maybe on a relationship level how can that be? Something that is stirred up in an intentional way and?
Neesie Cieslak :
On a relationship level, you know when I think about how we build relationships, right, it’s usually over some lunch or over a cup of coffee and you’re building us over time. I think if to in order to provide that type of space. For now, I’m talking men and women because men are part of the abortion process as well, some knowingly, some not knowingly, but those that I know. So if you’re building a relationship with your friend, not being afraid to actually discuss some of the current topics that are going on in our, you know, in our, especially in our nation right now, and abortion is one of those topics so even asking questions, you know, what do you think about that? And as we’re building relationship, if that relationship is one that has been built on trust, there’ll be that space to voice these questions without it becoming a debate or argument now and another thing for me is allowing myself to be vulnerable and sharing my story. So for those out there that have had or have been a part of abortion taking part, even if there’s a parent that took their child, right? Or if that’s a boyfriend that took their girlfriend or a husband that said, hey, we can’t have another baby right now, Or if that’s that girl, that’s just like, I can’t do this, I’m going to go have this abortion. Once you’ve had it and you’ve had some healing, I think we’re able to provide that space, Jacob. With conversations that a lot of that are more sensitive, where a lot of people would be less comfortable speaking about, but because I’m not ashamed anymore of my decision back then, because of my healing, i am free to actually talk about it and conversations and what happens you’ll I’ve had people, you know just start crying and because they’ve never told someone that they had an abortion or so, I share, I share about my experience, not one out of shame, but as a fact of my life and now I’m going forward. So I think that’s one of the ways to provide that space on a personal level and relationship wise and does that answer your question?
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, I think so i think bringing it up and also I really like the way you said, yeah, you know, being fully healed is part of your story and then there’s and the shame has been, yeah, the shame doesn’t have power over you anymore that shame has been negated or wiped out in some way or replaced with. Yeah, Can you speak a little bit about that what was it like to go from having shame to not having shame? What was? Can you. Yeah, expand on that some.
Neesie Cieslak :
100 percent, 100 % when I learned, you know, so a lot of times in our life when we’re speaking so even here on this podcast, right, I’m coming trying to present my best self, you know, as I talk about my abortion that I had and the pro-life movement. But most times when we’re coming to a conversation or coming into a group or things, we are going to do everything we can to put our best foot forward. And because we want to hide all those things that someone could judge us on and not take us seriously with, or whatever that may be. And what I’ve learned over this course of this last year and a half is that when we look at those issues that are the sticking points in our life, for example, abortion was a sticking point of my life and shrouded in shame, I realized and learned, actually I end up doing a program called Giving God Your Worst and learning that God actually, you know, he wants my worst. Here I am trying to hide all these other things, but God wants my worst. And I, even I and I speak about this to actually, even people that are not religious, that when we take our hurts our the our regrets and we’d look at them right in the face there, that there’s something that happens with that brings that sting off and that shame off. Now because I am a believer in Jesus Christ, what I have learned to do is these things that have been shameful for me. I learned that I don’t have to i actually don’t have to hold it anymore. I don’t have to hold it and what does that look like? That looks like taking it, looking at it in the face as a fact and I can’t go back, Jacob. I can’t go back and change it. I can’t fix it. And actually for me at that, at that, at that point and you made the statement about a 14 year old, you know, being taken advantage of. Someone said that to me in my adult and I at first I balked at it, like wait, no, I wasn’t but then I realized, oh, actually, I was taken advantage of for my because of my skill sets that I had in running. They were controlling my narrative. And so I can’t go back and change it. I can’t. I didn’t have control. I can’t go back and fix it or change it, right. So what do I do with this level of regret, this level of pain, this level of guilt, what I can do? I can surrender it. I can surrender it to a true living God and look at the pain, feel the emotions of it that is what I learned, feeling the emotions of it. Crying, being angry i was angry once I realized, wow, they just wanted me to run for them. I was angry and then I was sad because now that I’ve raised six children, i missed that opportunity, right? So feeling the emotions and what’s not happening, Jacob was unbelievable the shame, it literally felt like it was falling off of me, just falling off of me and then when I was think of and forgiving yourself, I had to learn how to forgive myself and all of that. And that’s surrendering those things I can’t change, fix or control and learning to forgive myself. That is when that shame broke. And now I hold my head up and I and I, and I’ll be speaking several times this year with my with my story and my testimony and I can share it now as I’m sharing it with you. And that level of pain that I used to have it is not there. It is. It’s now it’s my and my Sailor Roses story and it’s a story of hope. It is a story of healing, Yes is there some regret in there? But that level of shame is gone.
Jacob Barr :
Staring Wow, So and what and what you shared so far And in your greater story where like what narrative have you seen God speaking to you or where have you seen God’s fingerprint? And in as you’ve traveled this rocky road and then now you’re on a, you know, through the through the experience of healing and now you’re in a new. Yeah, now you’re in a new a new place, a new posture, a new, a new part of your journey. Where have you seen God? Like what like which Bible verse or which you know words really resonate with, like God’s leading in your life?
Neesie Cieslak :
When the principle of redemption is what really stands out to me right now. And as you talk about you know all the rocky places that I had and now the way it’s come full circle i’ve seen his fingerprint and let’s look at that even though I made that choice I actually didn’t make that choice on my own i really was coerced into that choice. But i know that day because when I got on that city bus and I knew life was taken. When I look back now because God is the giver of life, right. He’s a giver of life, and he should be the one to order the taking of life. But when I when that happened, I knew something happened spiritually. God’s fingerprint was right there. And I believe he decided that day, OK, we’re going to turn this around this is going to be hard for a minute, but we’re going to turn it around. And then as I went on seeing it again when in that church that I spoke to you about, because I really was loved in that fellowship once i had been there maybe five or six years. When I finally actually shared with a person, it was actually my sister-in-law my husband’s sister that I had an abortion. But I did ask her to keep it on the wraps and to pray for me, you know, and she did. And I believe that was a part of God’s his fingerprint there as well as plus with my husband my husband has been just such a support in my life. And then the different people, Jacob, that he’s placed along the way when I when I started learning about like there was this place this thing called right for life when I came back from the military. And I actually now when I think about it Oh my gosh it was right for life again. I was trying to almost kind of make amends for this. And I became on a call center. I needed a job and there was this call center it was called Right to life. And I remember reading the script the first time and I was doing cold calls, asking for donations, Jacob asking for donations i was 19, OK, almost 19, almost 20 asking for donations. And now I look back right here, it’s just it’s like coming to me right now. His fingerprint was right there because Jacob in October guess what I am back in central Wisconsin and I am speaking for the right to life, the festival for life that’s ran by the rights for life people that just hit me right now oh my gosh. And so that’s happening. God’s fingerprint for sure i have chills oh my goodness. So God’s fingerprint right there for sure. And over this last and just prior to meeting you at the conference that we were at in Kentucky, Jacob, I had an opportunity to apply for this position. But prior to this Executive Director position coming open, the Lord had been putting people that have been fighting, I mean that have been in jail because of their fight for rights for life in my, in my, in my vision he’s been giving me podcast after podcast different things people are sending me things now this is not me asking. These are just things coming to me about life and so about this pro-life movement and I’m like, OK, so then he introduced me to the daughter of the lady that created the precious feed and so I’m involved in her ministry and then the heritage house, all these different things i’m like, OK, Lord, what is going on? So I’m seeing his fingerprint and more and more and more and these people that are mentoring me, they’re saying to me, Niecy, I don’t know why God has us a meeting like this but there’s something happening and we’re talking and I’m learning i’m learning so much about really where we’re actually Planned Parenthood started i’m getting these documentaries MAFA 21 and I’m watching. I’m just being inundated and in a good way with all these different things and just like and then but I’m asking, I’m literally asking God, why are you showing me so much and with so much intensity and with these people that have not just stuck a toe in, they have put their whole lives on the line in this pro-life movement. And he’s shown me, he has brought it around and he’s shown me and his fingerprint was his not even just his fingerprint his whole hand has been on me to prepare me for this new position that he’s placed me in. And I’m honored. And i’m actually so blown away right now to really consider where his fingerprints has been and i know that was him jacob. Definitely his fingerprints because you can’t. I can’t get away from it not that I want to, but it’s just been right there and now at that conference, at the Heartbeat conference, they were doing that parade of flags. Now that was my first time seeing it you may have seen it before, but that was my first time seeing that. And as they’re parading these flags of countries that are fighting for life, I felt in that event at that time I felt God’s fingerprint handprints so strong on my life. And I was recording it for my family and in that recording, Jacob, I told them, I said I don’t know what’s going to happen with this interview that I did for this position, but I know that I am in this fight for life, for the rest of my life and whatever capacity that the Lord wants me in because I there is no turning back for me. And so that’s those are the ways that I’ve seen God’s fingerprint.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, it’s. And the reason why I like to ask that question is because, well, because sometimes it takes reflection to or asking God, where were you during this time to you know, to recognize and see how he was present even in some really hard stories and hard times. So as a new director so when is your day one as a new director when is that approaching?
Neesie Cieslak :
So my day one excuse me is approaching next week Tuesday and as A matter of fact i’m doing a just a little bit of a break i’m actually at another center shadowing some good friends of mine as I get prepared to start this new journey and even in that so the timing even of this interview and everything has actually is even solidifying solidifying this calling and this the fingerprint of God on my life regarding the pro-life on my role in the pro-life movement and fighting for life. And so i will begin next Tuesday and as I go into this new arena what I see Jacob and actually has a lot to do with the question one of the questions that you asked me here how do we come alongside these women in the different these young girls in the different areas of where they are in a crisis pregnancy or in abortion versus outside of the clinic right. How do we walk alongside them in their healing and a big portion of what i hope to be able to establish is that community will know that we as a as a crisis pregnancy center, we’re not just for the person and that’s in the crisis pregnancy, but we are for the family. We’re for the family period let that be that a single mother or let that be a father that just, you know, that doesn’t know really how to do this thing we’re going to they’re choosing life, but they don’t really know how to do it. And then for those grandparents and aunts and uncles that are part of their lives. So as a family as a whole, that’s my heart because one of the things I’m learning here even as I’m sitting in this other center here in Arizona that has nothing to do with my centers up there what I’m realizing is that we are family period we’re all in this together and so that’s what I hope to bring to those centers there and show law Arizona that’s my hope and my prayer and coming to a place where people can understand that healing is, healing is possible and that they’re not alone really.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, I was talking to a well i’d asked the pastor at my church, Sue Susan, to pray about, like, new ideas that we that are needed or what God might be calling us to in the pro-life sphere. And yesterday she mentioned that she had been praying about it and she sort of felt like she was explaining how she felt like God wanted us to help. You know when women you know, she’s talking about the post abortion scenario is like that’s an area that really I, you know I felt God was speaking about helping in those areas and it’s sort of just confirmed. So like, you know, if life was a series of dominoes and sometimes you go One Direction, but in the end there’s like 1 domino that hits another. And these life decisions, we want to help people in all of these different domino decisions as best as we can. And not just focus on a single, you know, small window of time, but rather you know, the dominoes leading up to it and then the dominoes that come after based on. And so there’s a lot of different points in which we can provide help and really, in the end, we’re trying to help these women in the greater journey that, you know, came before and after, you know, these unplanned pregnancies. And regardless of which direction, we want to try and provide care to all the people. And ultimately, it’s essentially to honor the, you know, honor the women and their child and their future children to and to really, just, yeah, serve these women more so than trying to focus on a certain smaller scenario, I think by serving in the greater capacity, it’s also serving to reduce repeat abortions or reducing abortion risk and other stories and so i think it’s. Yeah and I think that’s part of the calling of this work, is to focus on helping, you know, people who may be at risk down the road or who need healing now. I think, I think it includes all of these different scenarios as a as a way of serving God. And ultimately yeah serving God is the true overarching calling more so than just avoiding abortion. I think that I think that’s the ultimate calling, but sometimes it’s really good to have like defined values and does define purpose and in order to drive decision making because we need to have some focus otherwise things can get too well, too hard to, you know, comprehend as to what action to take next.
Neesie Cieslak :
Yes.
Jacob Barr :
And but it’s sort of it’s a balance of and it, yeah it’s not just to focus on a small window, but yeah, to focus on a greater path and journey that people are going on and.
Neesie Cieslak :
I still Jacob, you know that that’s I’ve, as I’ve been speaking with different people from different centers, that seems to be the trajectory that’s happening where there are more parenting classes and actually the center I’m sitting in right now they have classes four men that are ran by men from the churches that are mentoring them And then also one of the things you said, so a lot of times the young lady that has may be coming in to get a pregnancy test for Christmas pregnancy she may have had an abortion before, right. So that’s one of those situations where that’s a part of her that will need some healing and some care some care towards that reality of her life, right? And so simultaneously helping her in this decision, helping her and hopefully directed her to choose life, but also helping her to know that because as a woman, I know that feeling of when you’ve allowed that life of your baby to be ripped from your body i know that feeling, you know, physically, emotionally, spiritually. And so we know that that’s going to need some care. And then as like the question you asked your pastor, what are some new ideas that we can have and so this is what I’m watching. There are new ideas that are out there in these centers and it’s really encouraging to see it it’s exciting as well and courses that are for children in middle school on sexual activity. I saw some of that actually at heartbeat that so actually getting in there and middle school talking about abstinence and things and so as we continue to pray Jacob on the new ideas and as we are looking to serve God and all that we’re doing in this pro-life movement. I know that he’s going to he’s answering he’s answering it. So there are centers that are really going above and beyond to reach the vast demographic of the families and people that are touched by a crisis pregnancy. And so I believe it’s going to be happening more and more and more in the different centers.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah one of the things that you had mentioned before was that, well, you’re talking about when you know, when you were young there was like, well, I think you mentioned this about, yeah, there’s like you’re an impoverished area or you’re, you know, some of the people, the people around you were in poverty. So it made me think about the, So there’s this podcast by Jordan Peterson and he was talking about when he was in college. He was, he was broke, but some of the people around him at that time were in poverty. But he didn’t look at himself as being in poverty, even though he was broke, because he had hope. He had the great hope of worth, you know, of things to come. And I feel like the shame and the damage of abortion, it removes hope. So whether or not someone has money may not really reflect their true poverty but I mean, if they, if they, if they have no hope, they probably have true poverty. Even if they happen to have money or if they don’t have money, it doesn’t make any difference. But not having hope is true. You know, that’s a true grim place to be. And I believe that healing restores hope. I feel like that’s, you know, by, you know, taking away that shroud of shame is really allowing for hope to replace that where that shame was. Yeah, pressing down. What are your thoughts on that idea of like you know healing provides hope and yeah as a an idea?
Neesie Cieslak :
Healing provides hope 100 % we can just dub that HPH healing as a whole HPH because when and I love how you put that right. The poverty yes poverty is real. I was we i grew up in starch poverty it was just you know we had no money food stamps all that we were just so poor on welfare. But a person who has great wealth but it’s under that shroud of shame because of this and we’re talking abortion, right because of an abortion or several abortions and they’re under that shroud of shame. The they’re hope is it’s really sucked out of them because what happens when you take life, you are putting yourself in a place that no human being is supposed to be in right. So there is a level of hope and there’s godly principles that we just can’t get around. So hope is it is taken out so then what happens? What do you do? I told you, like when that hope of when that when I had that abortion and I wasn’t healed, I spun out into depression, I spun out into more and more promiscuity and all of that. What happens when, say, someone that has wealth is living under the shroud of shame? A lot of times they’ll just start working harder and harder and harder to build their wealth, or they turn to whatever else, but their hope is diminished. But when healing comes, healing is like a breath of fresh air. When healing starts happening in your life, from the places that you have regret, the places that you’ve been wounded, the places, whatever it is when healing starts happening, it’s like when you put a shovel into the ground and you’re going to start planting, doing some new plants or something, and you start turning up that dirt. You start turning up that dirt, nutrients, and you and the water can get in there better. It just breathes better it breathes hope. When healing starts happening, you start feeling it little by little by little, and that is right now. When I went through Serenity and A Secret a year and a half ago, I cannot explain to you the level of hope that I had for my future, for my emotions, for me, spiritually there. I was just hopeful overall when that healing came in. So I agree 100 % that it doesn’t matter if you are impoverished financially or if you are quite wealthy when you don’t have the healing that is needed for your life. Hope is hope is an invisible thing and it doesn’t exist actually. So yes, I agree. I agree the hope that comes with healing is profound.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, fun. One of the things that you also said that’s really interesting is that when you were saying when you’re able to speak this today you speak it without shame. And it’s interesting. So there one of one of my favorite verses is my favorite verse last year actually is James five sixteen, which is therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed and the prayers of a righteous person is powerful and effective that’s the NIV version. But essentially by, you know, confessing, you know you’re essentially speaking it out loud and this in this verse that talks to essentially confess it to someone who will pray to you. That’s what I hear is that you know tell it to someone who has a relationship with God and ask for them to listen to what you have to say and to seek their prayer and you know seek them talking to God on your behalf as part of you know this healing process and you know to be healed And so telling people is critical for that healing process to make it. You know saying it out loud is a huge key for this for you know to find healing and so speaking, you know I can just imagine by speaking like your analogy of breaking up the soil in order for a plant to get the nutrients in the water or they you know where it to be. You know, breaking up that soil is not an easy thing to do, but that’s part of yeah, once you do it, then you’re creating a space where yeah, that a new plant can grow better.
Neesie Cieslak :
Yes, yes. And I think too, when that part about confessing your sin, this is a scripture that I actually just shared with someone last week. Because when and I was saying to this young lady, when we’re holding that secret in that unconfessed sin or just whatever it is, that’s a regret to us. There’s something that happens when it’s spoken out to a good friend or even that person on their own in prayer to God confessing it but this scripture right here from James that you’re talking about, there’s something about sitting with a friend or someone that you trust and or a pastor or mentor and saying, you know what, when I was 14, this happened to me and that person coming alongside you without judgment, without shaming and in a place of safety and say, you know what, there’s forgiveness for that. And I’m proud of you and I thank you and I’m honored that you would share that with me. And then going on and praying with them to God for that forgiveness, for them him to do the healing that needs to happen. When that is out in the light, it heals and you know, one of the things that happens, you know, so I have, I do have six children. And when my children are growing up, anytime Jacob, anytime that they got sick, my big thing was, OK, you got to go sit in the sun. Come on, let’s get out in the sun and get out in the sun you need some fresh air, right. That is like this when we confess these things and we get these illnesses or let that sickness of our shame regarding our abortion or whatever it is, when we voice out, it’s like going out and sitting in the sun, getting in those vitamins, getting that vitamin D in so that your body can start doing what it needs to do to help your immune system fight, right. This is what happens because that’s junk in there. There’s this book, Jacob it’s called the Body Keeps the Score and I’m forgetting the name of the author, but it has a lot of science in it. And so it’s a it’s a it’s a secular book it’s not a Christian book but I read these type of books and I take the meat, I throw out the bones but he talked so much about how our body keeps the score so let that be trauma, abuse, abortion. Let that be seen like he talked a lot about men and women that have come back from war that type of trauma and post traumatic stress disorder, all these different things the body keeps to score what happens and scientifically we hold stress in ourselves we hold it. So if we’re not getting out, we’re not walking, we’re not exercising, we’re holding that stress right, then all kinds of things happen but when we so just like that, when we speak these things out, when we confess these regrets, these hurts, these secrets to trusted people around us and when we provide the space for that you spoke about that earlier, Jacob. How can we provide the space, if we can provide the space and become safe people, for people to be willing to confess some of these things to each other, We are providing life. We’re bringing out that muck and stuff that’s been in there. And then God breathes in life by the power of His Holy Spirit through our prayers. And through that confessing it is a powerful healing thing.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah and I, and I think one of the takeaways of this conversation could be to demonstrate it so you know for you when you demonstrate this with your team or with others, another Executive director, you know, could also benefit from that same idea if you want to invite someone else into this probably the best way to do that would be to demonstrate that you know within a small safe group, you know to go 1st to go first at you know confessing and to and then that essentially will create a yeah essentially demonstrate that this is a safe space and that the person that is listening is you know considered trusted. And I think you know very often that might invite someone to follow in that same direction. Maybe not every time, but I think it’s. I think that’s that seems inviting to demonstrate more so than just telling someone what to do. Just demonstrating it maybe first is a probably even. That seems like a really good idea of how to encourage someone else to do it.
Neesie Cieslak :
I’ve seen that happen, Jacob, on many occasions. And the most recent one that I saw again, I was with my good friend and at a retreat and I was helping her wholesale retreat and in the beginning we were having a just, you know, everybody tell your, you know, just tell a little bit about yourself and everything. And so it came to me, I told a little bit about myself, but my friend invited me she’s like, you want to tell a little bit more? And Jacob, I told a little bit more about me and one of the things I said was that I was, you know, a part of my healing journey is that I’m post supportive. I cannot explain to you what happened in that room. It there were 14 ladies and by the time that evening stopped what end up happening you had them talking to each other or raising their hands and saying you know what I’m post support of two and what we noticed is that all the other retreats we’ve done it usually would take maybe the second or possibly the third day for the women to start because they’re coming from all over the nation many of them don’t know each other. So to be this cohesive group that broke something it broke something open and that night before that first night ended, there were relationships, friendships that were started because they knew that this was a safe place that there if and I’m not trying to say something for me, she just asked me to share more and I’ve never in the beginning, in the first part of those kind of things, I’ve never done that and to that level. But that speaks true to what you’re saying about the demonstrating it. And then people will know this is a safe space.
Jacob Barr :
Well I really appreciate your story and you see it’s been a pleasure to hear it. Would you as people are listening to this on their daily commutes would you close this in a prayer that just sort of. Yeah, just maybe praying for yeah for women who are post abortive for women who have been taken advantage of, you know, well you know from people from adults and yeah just would you. Yeah, just praying in US the people that are listening to this podcast, hopefully they’ll join us in prayer and lift these ideas to God.
Neesie Cieslak :
Amen yes, I will, Father God, I just thank you for this Time, Lord, and I do i lift up the young ladies, the women or the even the men that know a young lady or a woman that has been taken advantage of and have been coerced into having an abortion lord God, I pray for these women, that you would help them to understand that you know, that you understand that the feelings that they have of as almost that they had no choice, that you see them, you know them, and that you love them. I’m asking that you would bless these women Lord and I’m praying also Lord that for the women that have been post supportive that you would place people around them if they don’t have it. That would provide a safe place for them to share their story, to come alongside them, to help them to know that healing is possible and that the feelings that they’ve been having were let it be whatever is a result of the abortion, the regret, the shame, the depression, whatever it is, Lord, I’m asking that you would break those things off of these women. That you would take off that shroud of shame and that you would bring healing and restoration. And that you redeem the lives of those that have been cohorsed and taken advantage of and pushed to having an abortion and then those ladies that are post abortive, that have made that choice on their own, that you would redeem their lives from that abortion. I’m asking this in the name of jesus amen.
Jacob Barr :
Amen.
Sign up for email notifications when new episodes are published.
Our sponsor for this episode include Heritage House, Patriot Insurance and iRapture.com.