The ProLife Team Podcast 75 | Walter Hoye & Jacob Barr | Walter’s ProLife Journey

The ProLife Team Podcast
The ProLife Team Podcast 75 | Walter Hoye & Jacob Barr | Walter's ProLife Journey
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Listen to Walter Hoye and Jacob Barr talk about Walter’s prolife journey from the sidewalk and in the black community.

Summary

This is Jacob Barr, and in this episode of the Pro-Life Team Podcast, I had the pleasure of speaking with Walter Hoy, a seasoned pro-life activist. Walter shared insights from his journey in the pro-life movement, particularly his unique approach to engaging black leadership through a ministry called the Underground Railroad. He emphasized the importance of addressing the spiritual, emotional, and practical needs of those involved in the movement, including pastors and their spouses.

Walter described the Underground Railroad as a transformative experience where pastors and their spouses are taken to a secret location for four days of intensive training and support. The goal is to equip them to effectively address pro-life issues in their congregations. This initiative targets the remnant within the black community, focusing on fostering deep, personal connections and offering strategic guidance.

A significant highlight of our conversation was Walter’s explanation of the top reasons why many pastors are hesitant to engage with the pro-life movement. The primary reason, he revealed, is that many pastors are post-abortive, meaning they have a personal connection to an abortion decision. This deeply personal issue often hinders their ability to preach and advocate for pro-life causes within their communities.

Walter also touched upon the importance of cultural proficiency for organizations attempting to engage with the black community on pro-life issues. He stressed the need for understanding the unique challenges and dynamics of this community to effectively communicate and provide support.

As the discussion turned to legal aspects, Walter shared his thoughts on the potential impact of the Fourteenth Amendment on the pro-life movement. He expressed his longing for a time when the amendment would be used to unequivocally establish the personhood of the unborn, thereby providing a solid legal foundation for ending abortion.

In conclusion, Walter emphasized the central role of pregnancy care centers in the pro-life movement. He likened these centers to the heart of the movement, vital for providing practical help and showing Christ’s love to women and families facing unplanned pregnancies.

For those interested in learning more about Walter Hoy’s work or seeking guidance on engaging with the black community on pro-life issues, he recommended visiting the Issues4Life Foundation’s website.

Reflecting on this enriching conversation, hashtags that resonate with the content include: #ProLifeActivism, #UndergroundRailroadMinistry, #BlackLeadershipInProLife, #CulturalProficiency, #PostAbortivePastors, #FourteenthAmendmentAndProLife, #PregnancyCareCenters, #PersonhoodForTheUnborn, #Issues4LifeFoundation, #SpiritualSupportInProLife.

Transcript

The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.

Jacob Barr :

Welcome to the pro-life Team Podcast my guest today is Walter Hoy. Walter is going to share stories surrounding his pro-life journey with us today. Walter is a pro-life activist with years of experience and passion for supporting women and their babies. Walter will be sharing with us some of the unique and powerful ways he’s been able to reach black leadership through a ministry he calls the Underground Railroad. Our sponsor for this episode is Patriot Insurance. Running a pregnancy center can sometimes feel like a whirlwind, but you shouldn’t feel alone patriot Insurance has been helping the pro-life community since 1989 They have your back so you can focus on what matters most. Saving the lives of babies and mothers, supporting our sponsors like Peach Insurance supports the pro-life Team Podcast. Thank you. So Walter, I’m excited to have you on the pro-life Team Podcast. Would you introduce yourself as if you were talking to a small group of crazy clinic leadership teams? Yeah how would you introduce yourself?

Walter Hoy :

Well i first say it. My name is Walter Hoy and I’m married. I have a Proverbs 1822 She’s my good thing my great thing. I I’m also actively involved in the pro-life movement and have been active for some time i was I guess years ago arrested for standing in front of a pregnancy care center holding a sign that said God loves you man, your baby. Let us help you and all my goodness the women stopped. They wanted to talk to a black preacher and they ‘d often walk up to me and say, hey preacher, you know, is it true that God loves me i say yes it’s true that he loves my baby and for a Mama it was always a baby, wasn’t fetal tissue or anything like that. It was her baby. I say yes and then, you know the sisters, they don’t mind getting in your face and stepping up and saying now what you going to do if you going to help me. And I did i really didn’t care what she needed i helped her. I had the pregnancy care centers in our area on speed dial i could get a doctor, nurse i can get whatever they needed i mean, sometimes it was just simple as buying groceries. Oh my goodness. I also am a board member of the warning center in the warning centers is a pregnancy care center in Memphis and in Atlanta and we’re doing some great things with that so it’s my privilege and pleasure to be on the program today.

Jacob Barr :

Awesome and So what do we talk to talk about today when it comes to the different pro-life areas that you have worked in what what? What seems to be the thing that you felt you feel most LED for us to start off with?

Walter Hoy :

Well, i like to talk about a ministry that we do, you know we focus on reaching black leadership and there’s one ministry that I can talk a little bit of i can’t get into the absolute details of it, but I would like to talk about that, share somebody answer any questions you might have.

Jacob Barr :

Sure here so yeah so what’s the what’s the Ministry called that is working to reach black leadership?

Walter Hoy :

We call it our Underground Railroad and we focus on the remnant because all through the Bible it’s the remedy God has always used the remedied Old Testament details, it doesn’t matter or the line of Christ itself comes from and through the remnant and when reaching of the remnant, there’s some things that you’re going to have to focus on and our focus particularly is black leadership that’s what the issue of life foundation is all about. And So what we do if we take pastor and wife, if his wife can’t come, he can’t come and we take them away to a secret location we hold them for four days and then we pour into them the strategies that they’ll need to go back to their own congregation and make the pro-life thing work there where they are. And so it’s a very unique ministry that’s nothing like the really in the country and we’re awesome that to talk about it. I just wish I could tell you everything about it, but I can’t so.

Jacob Barr :

Ok. But then just a synopsis of helping ministers and pastors and their spouse, equipping them to strategically, you know, connect their congregation with pro-life efforts or pro-life fight thoughts in some way. It’s a very intriguing, I wish I could actually ask you more. So tell me what you can tell me about it, or what else you could say without, you know, without going into the areas that you can’t talk about.

Walter Hoy :

Well, i we have several teams and we have like a medical team. Our medical team is comprised of a former black abortions. And when they’re sitting down in front of the pastors of wives. Oh my goodness, the discussion. In one particular discussion, pastor actually got up he was he was angry. He was wondering why they stopped doing abortion they were making all the money and it was working great. And my team member, our medical team member got up and said hey, hey. When I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, I couldn’t do that no more. And you know what happened at that moment? The pastor turned around and confessed his sin to his wife it’s the first time I’ve ever seen anything like that. Our underground rail role is really unique. If you need help, if you’re struggling with, maybe it’s alcohol, maybe it’s drugs you get the help in small groups, you don’t get them in the large two hundred three hundred pastor conferences. Now, I’m not complaining. They’re great i’ve been to them myself participate into in those conferences myself. But if you really going to get right down to the real reason why they’re struggling, you’re going to have to do it in a small group. And that’s what we do so we invite maybe 7 to maybe 9 pastors tops and keep it in a small group and we do it in a way that the audience can actually talk back to the speaker so we get into all kind of conversations and our goal is to get to that intimate conversation. And so that’s one of the first things that’s happening is they get there on Tuesday and we blow them away Tuesday with that and hard chicken down as we get right down to the prime rib, it’s all good. But that Wednesday, we’re taking them to our secret location. And when they get there, the first team, they meets the medical team. But we have a civil rights team. A civil rights team is headed by Doctor LV King. And there are others that are on the team. And so ultimately, we throw out the race car because we’re all black Americans and, you know, so the race car is gone we threw out the gender card we got our wives we love the women you know, throw the gender card off the table. You throw the politics card off the table lord have mercy when you look at Daddy King, I believe he was a registered Republican so we got to throw the, you know, the political card off the table. All that’s left on the table is that baby. And that’s what allows us to get right down to the Nate, agree to that intimate conversation. We have a an abortion recovery team and now there are only two abortion recovery ministries in the entire country that I would trust with black pastors. There’s thousands of them. You know, they’re all over the place and that’s great we love them. But when it comes to reaching black pastors, particularly in my community, it’s a little bit different. You’ve got to understand the reasons why they are or are not involved in a pro-life movement and when you understand those reasons, they’re actually 4 specific reasons why they are not involved in a pro-life movement then at that point, you can really get down to it and so we bring in our two abortion recovery teams one is actually out here with me in California, but others in Minnesota, they’re just absolutely great the California team is no longer bound it’s a great ministry. And then there’s their Everlasting Light Ministries up in Minnesota and again husband and wife teams they bring it Oh my goodness, it’s pretty exciting to see what happens with that. So that’s some of what happens there and it’s AI guess like I said, it’s a very unique ministry.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, so i’m really curious now, what are the four reasons? I know you probably can’t go into depth if you were to try and make this into a podcast that someone can listen to on the way to yeah, on the way to a single drive but if you what what’s the fittest set of the four reasons?

Walter Hoy :

Well, I can go into to the number one the number one reason no matter where I go with, I’m travelling and I beat him here or there. The number one reason is that the pastor is post abortive and what I mean by that is that there’s an abortion in his life somewhere. Oh Lord, have mercy. It could be Mama, could be daddy, it could be his wife, it could be his son, his daughter if he’s preaching to a black congregation, our numbers are so disproportionately high when it comes to abortion that he’s probably preaching to an entire congregation that’s suffering and wrestling with it. And so when you understand the real reason why someone is saying no, then you can really get to it. For us, the worst case scenario with that number one reason, the worst case scenario, Lord have mercy, it’s his girlfriend in the back of the choir. She’s 15, and he stole church money to pay Planned Parenthood. Now, if you don’t understand how to deal with that, you even don’t know that even exists, you’re never going to get him to actually get involved in the pro-life Not at all. You’ve got to understand the real reason why and that’s true for anything and anybody can tell you no but if you don’t know why they’re telling you no, then it’s going to be pretty tough to put together a strategy, you know, to get you to say yes so that’s the number one reason.

Jacob Barr :

Wow and that one feels like in the back of my mind I’m thinking confessional community or but it’s such a hard road to get that started and so I’m curious but yeah so what’s one of the normal what what’s one of the things that you would promote for someone in that situation.

Walter Hoy :

Well, one, if these are conversations that I have with them because i’m license ordained, I’m in the club, I can have conversations with pastors and preachers that perhaps you couldn’t have. You got to sort of be in the club, so to speak. And then we take him to that secret location it’s just him and his wife they’re in a small group and the environment is encouraging it encourages them to talk. They’re safe now i can’t have this conversation at his office well, you know, I was in his church office. I can’t really get down to it there. I can’t even have it in his city sometimes, you know, as a big pastor, a popular pastor, and the person served us at the restaurant, you know, goes to his church and I really can’t have that intimate conversation there. And so when we bring them to our secret location, Oh my goodness, they’re there. They’re being treated like they have never been treated before. I mean, when you go to the conference, you got to, you know, buy your transportation there you got to register for the conference you know, you might get a little food there, but you’re going to have to pay for some food as sooner or later get what you want to eat, Lord Ambrose and you got to put your credit card down for the accidentals and all of that in the hotel you got to do that too. Not with our ministry, With our ministry. That’s all taken care of all I need to know, all I need to know is where you are. And we’ll have the car come and get you and no suits, no ties forget all that becoming comfortable we’re going to be in that small group. And I’m telling you, as soon as they get them, we start meeting them on Tuesday. They’re just blown away. They’ve never been loved like that. They’ve never been treated like that. And all my goodness, when we sit down to that high rib dental that first night, I’ve already got them already i haven’t hardly started yet. We’ve already got them so there’s a bunch of stuff that we do, but one of the big things that we do was just we love the past, we pour in to him. So whether he’s a big time, you know, pastor or maybe he’s leading the congregation of 200 it doesn’t matter. We bring it in and then we create the environment where you can have that intimate conversations and we can get right down to it. Why you’re not supporting the pro-life why you’re not preaching about it why You’re not getting involved in helping the women and truly in your community or in your congregation that.

Jacob Barr :

Sounds really beautiful and amazing to be able to take someone from a hard spot and sort of help them, you know, better minister to their own congregation, help them minister to their own family, helping them get you know find the healing that they need and ultimately with desire. So with those who are listening, if there is a church with a black pastor that you know a black pastor within a church in their community and they haven’t been able to get that pastor or church to maybe connect with their pacey clinic, what would be your suggestion would you suggest connecting that part that pastor can build a connection to your group? Would you what would you suggest?

Walter Hoy :

Well, interesting they could go to my website, the website is issues the number four life dot org and in the top right we’ve got a library and the library is all kind of stuff the pastors love going to my library because they can find information there that they wouldn’t necessarily find anywhere else i mean, even some of the brothers get tired of mainstream media i mean after a while, you know, you’re not really getting the true story on mainstream media so again, i’m in the club they come and they know that i’m black, I’m American, I’m pro-life i love the Lord. I love women and children. So they’ll come to my library and get all kind of information one of the things there in the library, I think it’s on the second floor. It it’ll help other organizations that want to reach our community involve them, they can get involved in this program and this program will actually help them determine if they have what it takes to do it. You can want to do it, but you may not have what it takes to do it. And so when they get involved in our program, we’ll come, we’ll sit down with the leadership and we’ll go through what it takes to actually do it so there’s some examples on that second floor and on our on our website where you can see exactly where and what other programs all about so really you’ve got to sort of get some coaching, if you will, if you’re going to try and do that.

Jacob Barr :

So with the with that executive director you know maybe she could point the that church pastor or that yeah, the pastor maybe and his wife to this website, one of these pages here, in order to try and find something that he would. Yeah, essentially. Yeah, look at and then that might open up more conversations perhaps, sounds like.

Walter Hoy :

Yeah. Normally I like to sit down and look at him face to face. Make that happen. It’s well, yeah, you can do it virtually and then you get on the telephone and email and all of that but it’s a whole lot better if you can meet somebody face to face and sit down and have that intimate conversation. Not everyone can do it. I mean that’s just the way, you know, life is i was talking to a woman’s program. I would ask my wife what to say. I mean, i know the issue we can talk about it, But, you know, I’m not a woman she would know what I could, maybe a better way to say this, better way to say that. And so if you’re going to try to reach, you know, at least my community black leadership, you got to understand what you’re getting into. I mean, it’s for instance, if you’re trying to reach a Catholic priest, it’s a little bit different. The priest might make a mistake and yeah, you know, maybe he’s transferred to a comfortable location maybe advancement is no longer in the future. I get there but he’s eating and sleeping. Come to my community with a pastor, can preach a pro-life message beautiful straight out the Bible, you know, boom. But by 3:00 that afternoon, by way of a conference call, he could be voted out the office and put out homeless in the street. Now if you don’t understand how the church works, you don’t understand you know what he’s really up against you don’t know. You don’t have any strategy any way to help him communicate that pro-life message in his church without getting fired. Well, i don’t know really how much help you can be. Nothing you going to have to realize there’s one Group, One group called the CNBC and that group is the most powerful group for black Americans in the entire country. I mean, they’re the number one group. They they’re comprised of I believe nine, well, I think it’s now eight of the largest black church denominations in the country. They’re an incredibly powerful and very influential group. If you don’t know anything about that, you don’t know anything about them you don’t know how they got started you know, the background. You don’t know essentially how the church is organized and how it relates, how it moves up from that local congregation to the district, then it moves up to the stay, then it moves up to the net you don’t understand any of that, the denomination, none of that. You’re just not in a position to really communicate. If all you got is the pamphlet, the, you know, the video, you got the sign. I mean, that’s OK. You know, it’s good. But if you’re going to reach that leader, you’re going to have to know something. And for the most part. Generally, the pro-life movement is really not in a position to reach black leadership.

Jacob Barr :

So let’s say that the executive director wants to reach the a black pastor LED church. Would you suggest that you know that executive doctor reach out to you in order to you know maybe make a plan on how to connect with this church and this pastor? What you what could What would be a reasonable first step for someone who is not in that position? They.

Walter Hoy :

Have to call me and we’d have to talk and get to get to know what other than again like I said we have that program it’s in our library on the second floor it’s called cultural proficiency and when if that exactly director is really interested they’ll bring my wife and I out and we’ll take them through what we call cultural proficiency will help them understand when they say this is what it sounds like to black Americans and when you do this is what it looks like to black there’s some ways to communicate. You may also understand this is this means that there are programs but successful. You may also understand that you don’t have what it takes to do. And so if you can’t make that first impression the right first impression, then I I’d recommend that you just leave it alone because first impressions are so important. But if you can make the right first impression, Oh my God, then you can begin to take it a little bit deeper. So what we do in this cultural proficiency program, we help the organizations understand if they have what it takes to reach and many organizations don’t. It’d be better they just let left it alone other ways they can maybe support organizations that are prepared to do that. And then finally, I’ve often been asked, you know, how can we do it and how can we, you know, become more involved but when but when you get right down to what their organization is all about, they’re not prepared it it’s not even in their mission statement to reach, you know, the black community. They’re going to be some things you’re going to have to do differently if you’re going to be targeting the black community when it comes to the pro-life message. So go to the library got us, we got on second floor, got our cultural proficiency program. You do a little bit, you take a little bit at that and you don’t see what it’s what it’s about. And then you can reach his contact us and then you know we can come on in and see if your organization is really ready to get into that discussion.

Jacob Barr :

Oh interesting. So you essentially the science story. But we’re working with an organization who is working the trend serve so well essentially unplanned pregnancies within the black community and they’re focused on you know this the African American community and when it comes to helping you know new moms and single moms and those experiencing unplanned pregnancy. And they we were recently trying to apply for a an account with a group called Techsoup and I believe Techsoup denied this group and I believe the reason why they denied this group is because they were focusing on the African American community and part of Techsoup’s requirements I guess are that they that they are that they you know that their all services are offered to everybody in the community. But what’s interesting is that the way to help the African American community, it’s it may be different than helping just a general person anywhere in the community like regardless of Baxter or skin tone. So it seems like I think we’ve made a grapple with that idea of how do you serve the African American community while also trying to get grapes and align the services that say you have to provide services to everybody without saying no based on these different qualifications like race or ethnicity. What are your thoughts on that kind of yeah struggle?

Walter Hoy :

That’s a huge struggle and again, you’re going to have to really think about what is your organization’s mission. I mean why were you created what is your target audience. In other words, black American leadership is our mission field. That’s what we do that’s what we specialize in. That’s what we do if that’s not your mission field, I mean you’re good over here and you know you’re good over there that that’s great and you you’re prepared you got what it takes for that mission field. But if the black America is just an additional something that you want to do, you want to do that also you want to be able to do this and that may not necessarily leave work because you’re going to have to answer some very difficult questions if you’re going to have that honest open and at the Met discussion and if you don’t even know what, you don’t even know the reasons why they’re not already pro alive, why they’re not working with your organization to begin with. I just think you’re going to need help with that so it depends the organization’s really understand they’re really committed to reaching black leadership. There’s some things we can talk about and we can help them get in a position where they’re going to be better able to do it. But if that’s not their mission fee, that’s not really where God has planted them and put in their heart, then, you know, they can continue to spray maybe they can support organizations that are in that maybe that’s the way they could do it, yeah.

Jacob Barr :

Well for this one group we’re currently working with their, they are focusing on the African American community and African American families and they were essentially denied access like every other group similar that’s simply trying to provide services in general that’s been getting approved but this one group that’s focusing on the African American community got denied. And we’re just trying to, we’re trying to figure out like it doesn’t really seem well, it seems difficult but just when you focus on a certain group, you know, certain resources may you know are becoming unavailable and that’s very frustrating or disheartening because.

Walter Hoy :

Well, see, part of the problem is that it may be that there are tactics. I’ll try to put it this way and in the beginning, I talked about how we would focus on the individual. If you’re going to put organizationally, you’re going to get this organization, that organization, you can fill in the blanks. That’s going to be a little tougher you’re going to have to be able to develop a relationship with that leader, this leader or that leader. You’re going to have to be able to take some time and invest some energy and working on those individual relationships and it may be that the remnant, that mission field, the remnant that those that are really sold out to the word of God with word God is pregnant. It doesn’t matter black or white, it doesn’t matter whether it’s left or right. It’s just what the word of God says. And if you can get down to that, then you could begin to actually make progress. And so if you’re just going to do it, you know, at a very high level, you’re going to do the organization at the very top, you’re going to connect with this organization that with organization that’s you can do that but like movements have been doing that since what Abortion has been illegal since 1967 and in Colorado, Mississippi and California, when you keep on doing the same old things and you keep getting the same old results, you’re going to have to really sit down and actually think about what is your goal, what is your real mission, and what are you really willing to do and that’s why we’ve come up with our version of the Underground Railroad is literally taken literally taken from First Kings Chapter 18, verse 4.

Jacob Barr :

Just yeah so what does that verse say you said first?

Walter Hoy :

Kings 1st Gangs 18 and four you got it.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, I’m pulling it up. All right, here we go. And that reads, While Jezebel was chilling off the Lord’s prophets, Obadiah had taken 100 prophets and hidden them in two caves, 50 in each, and had supplied them with food and water.

Walter Hoy :

Absolutely obadiah is not the prophet. The Obadiah literally works for ahab and Jezebel may be the first the worst king queen combination in the Old Testament sometimes I think we got Obadiah and Jezebel in office today and Lord have mercy when you look at ahab and Jezebel you looking at the probably one of the most difficult times issues ever faced. So Obadiah has got the real prophets. He’s got 50 and one cave, his underground cave. He’s got him in the underground. He’s got another 50 and that’s how the word of God is getting out to the remnant. If you’re a prophet and you’re in the community, you’re hanging out. Ahab and Jezebel don’t want, don’t care they don’t mind you being there. You’re the wrong one all right, You’re the wrong one now it was so bad get this straight. It was so bad during that time that Elijah, how Elijah is the prophet that could call down fire from heaven. Lord have mercy. I mean if I go down 5 from him, I don’t think I’d be running for anybody. You know, I just called it down, but it was so bad that even he was running for his life. Now he meets the Lord, the Lord talks to him and sends him back. And on his way back that’s when he runs in the Oprah die and while he was gone, while all the real prophets were in the cage, 50 and one fifty and another and all the false prophets were out in the community you know, doing whatever they do in the community. It was through that remnant. It was through Oprah die and that underground ministry that kept getting the word of God out and into the general public. And so our underground real works the same way it’s an undisclosed location secret location. Oh my goodness this is probably only baby oh maybe three like it in the entire United States of America. And then we take them for four days and then we treat them with the love and respect that they deserve. Oh my goodness, it’s completely different than any other ministry. And then while we’re there, they get a chance to be poured into and the groups are small so that we can have that intimate conversations that we can talk back to one another and really get right down to it.

Jacob Barr :

And that sounds really intriguing for a pastor to have that experience being cared for. Yeah just with and having fellow pastors to experience it with like that just sounds really pretty awesome and then and based on the. Yeah just the level of service and care and information yeah and again and also just to try and provide some really good information on how to present a life saving message in the you know when it comes to abortion. Wow just a such a such an amazing idea. So one of the things that i also wanted to talk to you about this podcast was your thoughts on the fourteenth Amendment and how what was your thoughts on Roe being overturned and what were you, what was, what’s your longing for that in regards to the fourteenth amendment?

Walter Hoy :

Well, before the actual decision came out in June you know the draft came out from my sources the draft was not what it was really going to be. It was going to be reversed based on the fourteenth. Amendment i mean like there’s no, there’s nobody now that can say, you know what i want to bring slavery back we’re just going to do slavery we’re going to make it legal in our state without that ain’t going to happen you know we got the thirteenth we got the fourth we got the fifteenth amendment. If you look at Justice, black men, the guy that the justice wrote the original opinion, the majority of opinion for Roe V Wade i mean the weakness in Roe V Wade that what could have stopped it would have brought it to an end was personhood based on the fourteenth. Amendment and oh my goodness, if that could have ever been established and it was clearly established, they just didn’t want to do it. It’s obvious that the child inside the womb is a unique individual, a unique human being. I mean, it’s evidence is just overwhelming and now we got sonograms oh my goodness, oh Lord mercy. But if it the role could have been overturned based on the fourteenth Amendment that would have made that child in the womb or person, that child, whoever becomes a person. Now abortion is over. If you if you’re just interested in raising money and you know getting some things done with it, you got to use incremental strategy. Incremental strategies are really good. Oh my goodness, they’re great when it comes to raising money. I mean we’re going to do this and then we’re going to do that and well, we got to stop, but we going to keep on going, that’s good. But if you’re trying to just stop it, this is the weak spot, this is where it ended for good, then you’re going to have to embrace personhood you’re going to have to embrace personhood a whole lot more than just, you know, the idea of it you know yeah, I believe in it yeah, it’s good. But you’re going to have to really take a look at in different ways that you can get this done. Essentially, we’re fighting a war, and whether we like it or not, it’s a war. And if this was World War 2, you’d have to get to Germany. I mean, it’s good that we go to France it’s good there you know, we do at least good to do Japan it’s good that we stormed the shores of Normandy that that’s great, that’s great. But if you don’t get the Germany, you don’t get the Hitler, You’re not going to win the war. Now if it’s about winning, you’re going to have to get the person sooner or later, one way or the other, and they just simply assume will not, you know, it’s not doable we’re going to do this and not that, and we’re going to do incremental stuff or just step by step. I’ll challenge anybody. Can you find me that incremental strategy in the old test? Lord have mercy even in the New Testament, an incremental Strat, You know, like thou shalt not kill well, you know we only going to do it, you know a couple of days out the week you know we’re going to work our way up to no, not at all. No, that that’s not anywhere in the Older or New Testament. You just keep working for us what’s right keep working toward it. And I think if we can all come together and actually commit our hearts to getting this done, I think we will see a whole lot more. But again, that’s just our opinion and you love everybody.

Jacob Barr :

And I guess I would just I would say if I have you know I would say if I can if we can save as many lives as possible that’s you know what we yeah. That’s where we where we might be today. But ultimately we do want. Yeah to stop abortion make abortion unthinkable. Make abortion illegal make abortion undesired. Make life desired make life valued or have life valued and but yeah and i think when it comes to like incremental or compromise I think it’s I think it it’s good when we can save more lives but it’s but it’s just a part of it’s not you know it’s I think you’re right it’s not over the war is not over until until we reach Germany and the leadership of the enemy is imprisoned or something or stops and yeah right now our opposition which is 50 plus % Planned Parenthood several you know people in Congress our president and vice president are supporting you know abortion there’s a there’s a we have a lot of enemies right now that are on the abortion side and then we have God on our side we have a lot of people on our side and it’s an ongoing spiritual battle that we yeah, we experience through people and organizations.

Walter Hoy :

I would agree. I think it is every life, every individual life is priceless there, there’s no question about that. But if you’re fighting a war, you’ve got to put together a strategy to actually win the war. And when you look at the battles that were fought in the Old Testament, the battles that were fought and in the New Testament, you don’t find incremental strategies winning or doing anything matter of fact, it’s got, I would challenge almost anybody find me an incremental strategy where we going to, you know, start worshiping Molech, you know, seven days a week and we’re only going to worship Molech or bail on weekends. I mean that’s the start i mean that’s better than what it was when it was twenty four seven i totally get that. But there’s not a strategy like that in the in the Bible. And so I think we need to focus more on strategy that’s just going to win, that incremental strategy, the strategy is just going to win. And if we do more of that, I think God has already given us the victory we just need to step down and embrace what he would do and when I look at where Craig and the New Testament, he wasn’t incremental. He he just saved. It just went right there, Just did it. And Oh my goodness, that’s our example. There’s no greater example of that. So that that’s what we do here at the issue firefighters desire to literally move them from A to B to get them from where they were to where they’re embracing the pro-life message they know how to do it. They can do without getting fired they can start helping the women and children in their own congregations and when we start doing that, I mean, Oh my goodness, a good example. We reached one pastor. Now he wasn’t, you know, his church wasn’t large it wasn’t a big church but this pastor was the president and he was over eleven hundred churches, which ended up giving us access to this zoo, this organizations, the eleven hundred, churches black churches so that’s so that I got the president saying, Oh yeah, you can bring the issue of Life Foundation there. And we can start talking and what we do, literally we start talking. I mean it’s no different than in the news says Jesus sent the disciples out when they went to the city if there was nothing happening there, they just shake the dust off their feet and keep right on going. Well, we do that. There’s sometimes Oh yeah, it’s great it’s working. You know, all my goodness this past your wife that might be a candidate for our underground or railroad, but then sometimes we go on, no, we’re not getting anything there we leave shaking the dust off our feet. It’s just a biblical approach. It’s not that I don’t think that’s the only way. That’s the way that we have chosen to do it and that’s where we can find the biblical models and that’s why our ministry is based off of 1st Kings, you know, 18 and four. Yeah so it’s just a it’s just one example, I mean.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, well, I was just going to say i think so pre C clinics will often work in there you know within a county or a smaller community such as a county in order to reach out to women who are seeking abortions in order to talk to them there and love and provide free ultrasounds and options counseling in order to promote parenting and adoption and be exposed to risk the real spiritual emotional physical risks that are associated with abortion decisions and it meanwhile that doesn’t necessarily you know that’s not progressing. You know the move towards maybe the fourth it’s not directly hop in the fourteenth Amendment overturned you know it essentially embracing personhood for the person that’s not born yet whereas looks like the fourteenth amendment focuses on those who are born and but I think you know in my mind I look at that was being like trying to trying to help those who are who are in a voting building right now and they need to be rescued. Meanwhile the fourteenth Amendment would be a matter of you know changing the building so that it doesn’t catch on fire like that’s what the. Yeah if we could embrace personhood, we’ll have buildings that don’t catch on fire, and it’ll have less fire.

Walter Hoy :

Yeah.

Jacob Barr :

Basing you know death within hours.

Walter Hoy :

Yeah the pregnancy care centers represent the heart of the pro-life movement, the very heart of it. If you took pregnancy care centers away from the pro-life movement, I mean, you’d have a lot of groups that are still out there, thousands, thousands of those. But when it comes right down to the heart, the love that actually, physically helping somebody, it’s pregnancy care centers. I just don’t know how we could possibly win without pregnancy care centers so wherever they are in the United States or in the world, we need them they’re the literal heart of the pro-life movement. And Oh my goodness, what we do in a part of what we do in our Underground Railroad is that we bring in those ministry we bring in the ones that can actually reach it and deal with that pastor and the congregation and we help them understand how pregnancy care centers can’t help them so there’s no question, we love the pregnancy care centers. There’s no question about that. But now we got to go fight the war. I mean, let me give you an example of this is sometimes we talk about this in light of pregnancy care centers. In Exodus chapter one, we have a late term abortion. Exodus chapter one, late term. No question pharaoh he can’t wait to kill that first born male child coming out the womb lord have mercy. Kill it. Kill it right there. That’s a late term abortion. You’re in California. It’s insane. The baby can’t be born and you can still kill the baby. Late term abortion well, it’s clear to see an Exodus chapter one whose side God is on. He’s helping the midwives. It’s the women with the midwives. The midwives come up with a plan and they work it and all my goodness, God blesses that plan from the midwives. And when the midwives meet, Pharaoh, God protects him and keeps them. And then they end up saving the life now they saved the life of Moses moses, oh, my goodness, is coming now. And not only that, that’s the line of Christ. The line of Christ continues through us through all of that. And so it’s clear, I mean, Oh my goodness, how God uses women and the pregnancy care centers or midwife it’s incredible i mean Moses gets what adopted by Pharaoh’s what sister I think his daughter one of the two I mean so God now he is like.

Jacob Barr :

Royalty yeah. So it was just adopted he was adopted him to the royal family.

Walter Hoy :

Yeah, I mean, if Pharaoh’s only got what, maybe five six more chapters ago and he’s it’s over, you know, And so pregnancy care centers, you know, represent a biblical model, a biblical strategy where women were with women and they were meeting the needs of women the way that only they can’t. So i can’t say enough for pregnancy care. That’s why I’m on the board of one right now i mean, it’s the actual love and heart of the pro-life.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah just like there’s the body of Christ. I think that represents the people who are involved in the fight against death in the fight for life. And like, yeah and i think the crazy clinic, crazy clinics do represent like the heart and the care. And or I would also be called in like the hands and feet because they’re, you know, working in these, in these, you know, they’re meeting women right where they are in order to try and provide free services and then in order to show the heart of Christ to providing you essentially they’re providing medical care while fundraising. And so they’re working really hard to make things free and professional and safe. And then we’re looking and looking out for someone’s future that’s going to affect the life of that young client for not just for decades but for generations. And so it’s like, you know, it’s just deep love to consider the generations that are that are being affected and that are, you know, that love is being poured in to make a long lasting impact. But I think at the same time, we have other groups who are working on the political sphere and working in changing laws, defending people in the courts or working in the courts to, you know, to fight injustices. And so that I think there’s a lot in different areas of the pro-life world. And it’s really good that we have different parts of the body because not all of us are good at different parts of this fight. And so it’s good that we had different types of people and like, yeah, they’re working with churches or working with the African American churches, you know, that’s a whole different sphere as well it’s a different sphere of work is working with churches and bringing churches, you know, helping them make the connection and helping them get past roadblocks that are stopped preventing them from, you know, doing what God may be calling them to do.

Walter Hoy :

I agree it’s we all need to learn to work together. Now, just like in the scripture, there’s some challenges for some that you won’t find for others. But at the same time we’ve all got to find a way where we can work together there’s a lot more we can talk about, particularly about that particular subject. But there is no question. You take the pregnancy care centers out of the pro-life movement is done. You could do whatever else you want to do, but if you cannot love that woman with that baby, you can’t reach that man. You don’t understand what he’s going through. It’s the love that changes everything and Christ himself in the Gospels, you know, emulates that everywhere he goes, he gets right to the real reason why you struggling, right Get right to it and then when he gets to it, he blesses you and all my goodness the life has changed and so are the lives of those around it. So I think it when it comes to a biblical model, pregnancy care centers are pretty much at the top.

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