Hear Sr. Paula’s timeless talk about “Helping the Client Make an Abstinence Decision: What are Realistic Goals and how to Acheive Them!”.
Transcript
The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.
Welcome to the pro-life Team podcast. This is a dusty episode from 2017 I’m going to be republishing footage of Sister Paula.
A a a hero to many with footage of her talking at the International Life Services Advanced Training Institute about counseling.
I feel very relevant after that last talk you know how to make an abstinence through. Oh, I’ve never been so relevant. Listen, I forgot to ask can I walk around a little bit? It’s OK oK good good. That’s great. Ok, Let’s ask just a little survey. People come into your pregnancy counseling Center for a pregnancy test. How many of them are are positive and how many are abs Or how many of them are negative? Now let’s figure how many do you figure that more than 50 % of your pregnancy tests are positive more than 50 %? How many figure that more than 50 % of your pregnancy tests are negative. Ok. How many do you figure that maybe 40 % of your pregnancy tests are negative, 40 % about 40 % are negative almost 5050 How many say 30 % of your pregnancy tests are 30 about are negative? How many for 20 % are negative, 10 % or negative? Ok, so you’re seeing mostly pregnant women and you’re seeing mostly pregnant women. Ok, good but still, there’s a large percentage of people coming in with a negative pregnancy test, right? So what do you do with and say, Oh my God, thank God you’re pregnant i just let me let never let you see you again oK, you know, don’t come in again because they’re probably going to come in again or they’re going to get they’re going to do something, they’re going to have an abortion next time. So why are all these women coming in with a negative pregnancy test when they have all these contraceptives and they can they can do all kinds of things not to get pregnant. So what’s going on? Well, there can be a lot of reasons either they’re not on them, they just never heard of them before do you think that’s possible in this day and age? Or they’re they’re doing them intermittently or the guy didn’t really he’s he’s supposed to be doing he’s on the condom, but he’s not you know, every quite does it right or they’re forgetting to take the pill or they had the the three month thing and they forgot it’s a four months now they forgot to get it renewed. So there’s many reasons why they’re coming in negative. Not all of them are on a contraceptive many of them are not. How many of you figured it maybe 10 % or more are not on the contraceptive at all. More than that more than that. Yeah, more than that, Probably quite a bit more. You know, the contraceptives do not give you good feelings. You get fat, you get bloated, you don’t feel good, you wear out. All kinds of things happen to you on your contraceptive. So they just don’t wear them or they don’t want to. So let’s talk about how you can do to talk about lifestyle changes. And interestingly enough, although this is a large number of percentages, large number of people that are coming into a centers that are not pregnant and they’re not, it’s not working whatever if they’re doing anything to prevent it, they’re not, it’s not working very well. What do we do with them? What responsibility do we have for them and how do we talk to them about lifestyle? How do we talk to them? Even the girls who are pregnant, how do we talk to them about lifestyle? There’s some myths that I want to talk about, some things that keep us from being effective counselors in this, and we’ve got to talk about them because they are present virtually we heard all these horrible things about how this generation can’t relate to us. You know, that we have a speak a different language, we’re old, we have a different set of values. We don’t have the right words. And a number of us feel I can’t talk about sex. I can’t talk about sex anyway. But I can’t talk about sex to this generation and you know, I’m going to tell you something. I have never had anybody. I have never said to anybody. I’m going to talk to you about sex. And they’ve never said, oh, you know, I’m so uninterested in that i just don’t want to talk about it it never happens. People want to talk about sex. I’m telling you, you can get anybody’s attention if you have we’re going to talk about whatever you call sexuality or human sexuality or lifestyle or how to do it or whatever. You’re going to get people there and they’re going to listen to you we, we don’t, it’s not that we like to talk about we’re always interested in it, OK it’s always about interest. Even if you’re elderly and the person says, Oh my God, she, what does she know about it? Well, she’s had three or four kids that’s what she knows about but anyway, people will talk to kids will talk to you about sex because they’re learning about it and they don’t know and they’re getting information from all over, but they don’t know and they want to see what you have to say. So they will listen to you. Then the other myth that we have other than that they don’t want to talk to us is that we don’t have the right language to talk to them we don’t have the right words to say then. Well, I don’t, I don’t use valley talk, I don’t use gang talk. I don’t know any of those talks. But I do use normal human talk i use the proper words. So when kids say to me, Oh well, you know, we just did it, but what did you do? I ask them, what did you do? Well, you know, we got to second base. What does that mean? Oh, you know, we, we didn’t go all the way we just got to second base. What does section base mean? Well, you know, no, I don’t know tell me what second bases? You help them to explain to you what is happening because when they have to explain it, it makes it real. And then when you use the proper words on it, it puts it in another perspective in people’s minds. Did you have oral sex? Did she suck your penis? What happened was that second base for you? Was second base for you, another kind of sex where you were inserting something other than your penis. What is second base to you what is third base? You are very explicit because and they have to say something more than that. What are you talking about? And then you use the proper terms because then you’re talking the same language because they’re talking adult language. And in adult language, slang language covers up a whole lot of stuff. Covers up a whole lot of Slough stuff. Well, you know, he just me, you know. Well, what did he do he touched me where? Oh, you know where? Well, you know, here on your breasts. You’re not on my bus you know on your breasts. You use the proper terms because it puts it in a different perspective. The words we use for our organs are respectful terms. Slang words are often disrespectful. So when you change the words, you start to change the perspective. And you’re not putting the kid down you’re just saying, look, I don’t know what you’re talking about. You know, I’m old. You got to you got to fill me in. What are we talking about? What are we really saying? And then I repeat it according to the way I understand it. And usually they say, yeah, yeah, already you’re you’re already throwing something into a different language. Ok so that’s the second reason that people don’t talk about i don’t have the proper words. I don’t either. Don’t apologize for it. Just start to talk the same language and help them to start talk the same language you do and that’s fine. I don’t they I’m afraid to talk about sex because I don’t I don’t think they want to talk about it. They want to talk about it. Nobody’s going to go out disinterested in your talk. I won’t know what to say to them. I won’t know what to say with them. I won’t know how to present a positive message. Well, let’s talk about that a little bit. You have to go into your own heart about why you, why you feel abstinence before marriage is important. And then you’re not going to give them a lecture on that because that’s not going to go, kid nobody likes to have a lecture and nobody, nobody likes you if I’m teaching you about how to counsel, I’m not going to lecture you on how bad your counseling was. You know, we’re going to talk about other ways that you can think and other ways that you can do things. So that’s what you’re going to do. First of all, you’re going to have to find out how they think. We could talk about different types of women too that come in. Some women are very experienced they’re living with somebody. They’re not married, but they’re living with somebody. Some women are a kind of believe in the, you know, relationship with the benefits, with benefits, friends with benefits, and for them that’s OK. And other women are not that far i’m not that kind of a person, but I really was with him because I loved him and I felt he loved me. And then there’s the kids who say, well, I don’t know i mean, everybody’s doing it and just seem like the thing i mean, you do it when you’re ready for sex. I mean, that’s what planned parents is teaching in the school is you do it when you’re ready for sex. I don’t know what that means when you’re supposed to be ready, but when. But, you know, I thought I was ready for sex. So those are different levels of counseling you see what I’m saying? Different approaches so you have to find out where the curl is, what happened. Ok, let’s just start by just discerning that in the beginning, Mary Jane, you, you just had a negative pregnancy test and are you relieved you’re not pregnant? They may, they say no, they say yes, I, no, I’m not but anyway, then you have to discover that yes, I really am i don’t want that to happen again. Well, are you worried that it might happen again? Just ask questions open-ended questions. Well, yeah, I am worried it might happen again. Do you have any way of not happen again so you’re not worried so much again what are you you’re concerned about her. Well, if that’s the situation, well, see well, I, I better, I want a contraceptive or something, or I better make him be more careful about his condom or whatever you can find out whether where she is with the whole contraceptive issue, is she in it? Has she been on it, whatever, because that’s a different level of counseling. Well, had you thought about what, what contraceptive you wanted to be on? Then had her mention what she wanted to be on? Did you know anything about that contraceptive? Ask questions don’t say that’s not a good one because you know you have this and this is ask. Find out what she knows. Ask questions before you give in information. We are skillful at the question at the at the great art of asking questions. And that’s our skill because in the question the person has to figure out an answer and in answering the question, the person has to figure out something in their brain. So you want to ask very good questions. Well, I don’t know a lot about it. Well, you might say, but these are the things that I know about those conferences yeah, I have some information here’s some pamphlets I can give you on something on that. You are aware that there may be weight gain with that and there are with a lot of them. And some of them make you feel sick. They’re they’re not are you how how do, how was the chicks? How was the sex for you? Was it a good? What was the sex like for you? Give them time to think about that. How was the sex for them? Well, Joe and I did it for, you know, let them tell you a little bit about it and what was it like for you and whose idea was the sex? Now you’re starting to get into some very, very probing and intimate questions. How was it looks like for you? Let her tell you about it because you’re starting to build a rapport with her, as you’re saying, it’s really important. Whose idea was it? Well, I don’t know we were just, we were just, you know, don’t have her tell you what the setting was and what happened, how it happened, how she got involved with it. Had you planned for it? Is that what you wanted? Well, no it was more his idea and it just kind of happened you know, it just kind of happened. I’m going to go into that for just a minute. How many girls have told you, I don’t know, it just kind of happened. It just happened. It just, it just happened. You know, women are incredibly stupid about how sexual arousal occurs. Very, very misinformed we really are. So we’ll go back on that but let’s go a little bit further on the other questions. You need to help her understand how sexual arousal occurs for her and how it occurs for him. But let’s go on to the kind of three key questions. So it just kind of happened. It was his idea. You might ask another question what would have happened, do you think, if you had been pregnant would he? What would he have said what would you have said? What would have happened? Let her talk about all of that. It this is the situation you don’t want to get into again, right? So you think a contraceptive would stop it? You know, it doesn’t always you’re aware of that, that that that women get pregnant on a contraceptive we have many instances of that in our center, A large number, which is really true. Even Planned Parenthood says about 40 % of the girls come in while they’re on a contraceptive. If if they don’t, they don’t where something happens while they’re planning on a contraceptive. But anyway, you want to help her say, well, OK, he he wanted it. And you know who needs the contraceptive? Give her a minute on that one who needs the contraceptive? That’s a loaded question, isn’t it it is she says he needs it and she has to really think about that. The third question, the third key question is what would happen to this relationship if you said no to the the sex? Give her time to think about it, because what does that mean? It means that the relationship may be built on sex and most women don’t like that at all. Many women will say, I don’t know i just don’t know, you know, now would be a good time to test that out if you’d want be a good time to test out that to see if to see what the relationship is built on. And you could only test that out by saying no, no, we’re not going to have sex. That would tell you if he’s if he’s with you because he loves you or if he’s with you because he needs a sex partner. Let her think about that. That threesome, that threesome of of of of questions is good for an awful lot of issues off and off the levels of sexual activity. The woman who’s who’s now the woman who’s hopping from sex to sex to sex, that’s another story but we’re talking about someone who’s trying to enter into a committed relationship with somebody or who may even be living with someone. What does it mean if you say no to the sex? What kind of commitment do you have now? Then you’re going to have to ask her what kind of commitment she wants from a guy. What what kind of actually does she want from a guy that she marries, that she wants to marry? I know some women will say I never want a marriage that’s a that’s a problem we have right now. How many of you have encountered that women who say, I’m not, I’m never going to marry, I’m not marrying. Yeah, that’s a real problem. And usually when you go back and you start asking questions about that, it’s because there’s been a long history of bad relationships that they’ve seen and they can’t conceptualize anybody being committed in a long term relationship. My parents weren’t, my grandparents weren’t, my uncles and aunts weren’t they all divorced. My brother got married, he divorced shortly. You know, my other sister, they never married. They, they don’t have a commitment of seeing people who are engaged in a long term commitment and and they don’t see it with their Hollywood friends or with the idols that they see. That’s a very difficult counseling situation. And I usually say when you get this long and a long term relationship, but there’s no possibility of any concept of a long term relationship or the value of that long term relationship. You’re probably engaged in a whole lot of other problems with that kid. You’re probably going to see drugs and alcohol and previous sexual relationship, sexual abuse and so on. And if you can get them started talking about that, why do you feel this way why do you feel this way? You may get enough material that you’re going to say, why don’t you go and talk with somebody about that? You know, you really should be happy. You should be engaged with guys and really have a better situation why don’t you talk with somebody about that on a long term basis? Because you’re probably going to long term counseling. Or why don’t you talk to somebody about your your drug abuse? Because if you ever do get pregnant or if you ever want to have a baby, you’re going to have to deal with it and see if you can refer in other words, you want to talk to this person as an intake base, an intake, take a level and talk with them enough to get to a problem that you can refer them for a long term basis if you can’t reach them on the level we’re talking about now, remember, we’re not just about saving babies. We’re about saving women, about saving families. And so we want to do everything we can to promote the next generation of young mothers. And we can’t do it with the young mother that I just prescribed. Ok, let’s say you’re you’re with a girl who says, well, you know, I don’t, I don’t know i don’t what he would do and I don’t know and I just got involved with this and I don’t know, it just happened and I’m not sure you might say, well, what are your plans for do you want to do you want to go with guys and not go to a bed with them? Well, yeah, we didn’t really plan for that. Do you know how you agreed to say yes? Well, I don’t know, it just happened. Well, wait a minute, let’s stop and go back and backdrop and see what happened because at some point you were in the decision making idea and at some point you were not in decision making mode. Remember we talked about yesterday how they want to be in control. Ok, at one point you were in control, another point you worked. So let’s talk about how that happened because you want to be in control. You do want to be in control. You know, we women, we, we’re very sensitive to touch and that’s how we get sexually aroused. We, we love to be cuddled. We love to be held, like to pet a Pussycat. We love to, to hold we’d have a guy to put his arm around us and hold us. We’d love to be hugged. We just love that kind of touching we’re very tactile. Women are very, very tactile we love that hugging, kissing and holding. We love to be held. We’re tactile and that’s how we’re raised. Our sexual arousal happens through that kind of stimulation now that’s different for men. Now, not exclusively we’re they’re aroused true, by touch, but they’re aroused by sight. They like to see a Pretty Woman, so they like to see an attractive woman, and we like to see an attractive man too but really what stimulates us sexually is the touch. What stimulates a man is the sight. So when you were going with that guy the other night, what were you wearing? I’ve described to you what you were wearing. Was it low cut? Was he able to see your breasts or any part of it? Was he able to imagine your breasts because they were pretty well outlined, pretty had to print something on pretty tight. What about your thighs and your legs where were you? How, how, what were you dressed there? You know, these are the kind of things that are really stimulating to a guy. They’re really stimulating to a guy. And also make him think, wow, she’s enticing she, she’s ready for more now. Where was he where did you go for your date? Well, we went to the show. And what show did you go to? Well, we went to an X-rated film. Well, OK, so you were seeing all kinds of stuff that was quite pretty suggestive, right? Ok, that’s pretty stimulative for both you and he. And what were you doing in the film? You weren’t just sitting there, were you? What were you doing? Well, he had his arm around you. Ok. And was he touching you? Well, yeah, we were. You know, he was stroking me. Where was he stroking you? Well, you know, no, I don’t know where was he stroking you? Well, show me. Oh, but you know, here and here and stuff, and we could say, well, certain parts of a woman’s body are very erogenous they’re very stimulating. And the central part of our body is very, very stimulating. So when you’re touching the breasts, that’s really, that’s really sexually provocative it’s really stimulating us to want to say yes. The inside of the legs are very, very seductive. The back of the neck for him and you both are pretty, pretty seductive. So when he’s stroking you there, you’re getting more and more sexually aroused, more and more sexually aroused. And if you’re going to say I’m going to go on a date and it’s not going to go anyplace, you can’t let him go that far. You have to decide ahead of time before you go on a date. You have to decide where is the place where you say no. And then you always do it then wherever you go, whatever you doesn’t matter where you’re going. You figure when he gets to XYZ point, I say that’s enough. And it’s usually nowhere around the breasts around here, nowhere around there holding hands, has his arm around you, whatever, but nowhere beyond that or maybe not even that far, depending on where you’re how excited, how you are. I had a little girl I was counting and she just loved to be hugged and killed, cussed, kissed and she just let she didn’t see anything wrong because it was so good and so wonderful. And I kept saying, you know, you’re not going to, it’s not going to stay there it’s not going to stay oh no, I we got to stop there we got to stop there. And I kept saying, no, no, you have to decide before that time before, before, before, before. And she kept pushing and pushing and pushing to find where the before was. And finally it went too far, obviously. And she went back and she said, yeah, you know, I couldn’t believe it. There was a time I really couldn’t say no. So you have to help a girl understand if she wants to make a decision to wait, she has to have a place where she says no, that’s it. And she has to decide not to go to a place where it’s going to make it hard for the guy. And she has to decide not to dress so that it’s hard for the guy because the guy can say no to, I’m not saying he’s not the only one that is all on the girl, but frankly, ladies, so mostly ladies here, a heck of a lot of it is on us because we do a lot of the stimulation by the way we dress. We really do. And I’ve been with, I’ve been in many situations where the guy has been the one who said no and been the strong one. And that has to be too. So we have to get to our guys when we’re talking to them about abstinence in schools. Doctor Lester has a wonderful talk on talking with a young man about an abstinence. We have one of our our videos that we sell. First of all, it’s terribly hilarious the difference between the way men think and women think, but different ways in which you instruct guys to learn to say no. And that education has to happen early on before you’re at the point of trying to date and figure out when that is but you want to get that in the school setting and at home. When and how do you say no? Where’s the point of no? No line, no place forward for my daughter, for my child, for my myself. So at that point, you helped explain that you’ve got to decide that if you want to go out with this guy and you want to say no, Joe, we’re not going to do that anymore. We’re not going to get that close that’s not going to happen to us. We’re not going to do that. You have to set the the guidelines with him and come in let me talk with him also because he probably he probably doesn’t want that to happen again you say you don’t want that to happen to you again, right? And you would still want to date Joe. Ok, then let’s come in let’s talk about it together. Get him in because you know, that’s where you’re building a good partnership when the boy and the girl are working together, because sometimes one or the other is more stimulated than the other and they can help each other to say no. And that’s what develops a good marriage. And when couples are engaged, I talk to them very specifically you’ve got to help each other with this, folks. You’ve really got to help each other with this. Go discuss it and do it. Ok, So you give them that parameter. Where do you go? What do you dress? How much do you let him touch you and where is your decision of when to say no? You don’t go beyond that because beyond that your, your resolve gets less and less and less and less and pretty soon it just happens. It just happens. And I don’t know how it happened. And we’ve all had that girl with us, haven’t we? It just happened and I don’t know how it happened. Ok, so that’s one of the beginning stages. If you have abstinence education programs in your centers, I strongly recommend that you do that you send out speakers into the schools, into the religious Ed sections, into the the parish groups, into the ministry groups in your church and talk to them about how to say no. Because I’m telling you, kids don’t know. They do not know. They haven’t thought it out and they haven’t thought about how sexual arousal occurs. They just haven’t. And if they’re going to go to the school, they’re going to say, if the public schools say you, you, you don’t go, you don’t have sex until you’re ready for it. But there’s no definition of that. And hopefully you want to say to them, particularly in your Christian area, you want to say to them, wait until marriage. And you can ask if you’re in a, if you’re in a setting where you’re in a teaching education thing, you say, why do you think it’s a good idea to wait until marriage and let them get, let them ask you, let them tell you why is that a good idea? And it’s a good idea, of course, because you’re building an inner discipline. The man is building a discipline, the woman is building an inner discipline. And that’s a discipline that lasts for life. You know, they’re talking about how the brain is maturing. There’s pathways that are connecting. There’s a million pathways in the brain and things start connecting. And when you start connecting sex over and over and over and over and over in a pathway, it gets a roadway, it gets a highway, it gets to be a highway. And it’s hard to disconnect that. So if that’s not activated before marriage, if that pathway is not too strong, a couple waits and then they they have sex at marriage and they have this fantastic experience where they connect with each other and that marriage will last. I’ve do marriage Cafs all the time and the previous, the previous attachments continually get involved in the current marriage over and over and over. There’s remembrances, there’s dissatisfaction, there’s unspoken kinds of things he’s not as good as my last word she, she thinks I’m not as good as so and so or she’s she’s not as responsive to me as so and so goes over and over and over it’s very difficult to get out of that once you’ve attached yourself to another person because with sex comes oxytocin and vasopressin. And oxytocin is the bonding, the bonding device and it bonds us to the person that we have sex with. And it also, oxytocin has a part of the chemical reduces our ability to see bad things in the other person. That’s why it’s good for marriage. Our judgment level alters with oxytocin. We see the good in the other person and we’re not as able to see the bad in the other person. That’s why girls can be attached sexually to a guy and not remember that he’s a gang member, that he’s on drugs and he’s on this, he’s on that because he’s a good guy. Mom, he’s a really good guy i know he’s gotten drug, he’s gotten, he’s gotten arrested, but he’s really a good guy at heart he’s really a good guy. I know him because they can’t see. So you can tell them that too. When you’re involved with somebody, you, you sexually, you’re attached by a chemical in your brain called oxytocin and it binds you to that person. And you want to bind to the person that you’re going to be married with for the rest of your life you don’t want to be bound to more than one person. And Are you sure that this guy is going to be with you? Is this the one you want to marry? And why is that? Ask those questions ask her the thought questions. What what is there about this guy that that makes you feel he would be perfect for a reputation for life and you could ask your questions he’s good with kids, he likes you, he’s fun. How much of A temper does he have? How much can he wait and wait for you how much can he wait for anybody, not just you, but anybody? How patient is he asking questions that you know are important for married life and help her think that that through. Tell me more about Joe. What does he do? Does he have a can he earn you anything is he got a living? Is he able to support you? Has he kept any jobs? You know, on and on and on and on and on. Just help her to think it through that she may kind of resist that. But I’m telling you, after she leaves you, she’ll think, my God, I wonder if he could support me. You know, he hasn’t been able to hold a job you know, I, I didn’t like that question, but what about that you know, help her to think those things through help her think those things through. Now you have the woman who is in a committed relationship, and she is, she’s attached to him and she thinks he’s going to be the one to marry her. And she’s probably pretty attached to him. So you want to help back off and get excited with her. Tell me about him and tell me a little bit about him. You want a bit partner with him, partner with her excuse me. And you want to say something that will this sounds really crazy. Introduce a doubt in her mind as to whether living with him without marriage is really the best thing. And you can give her a lecture on why this isn’t good and all the time, you know, reasons you had. But you might be able you you when somebody is dead set on something and they feel that it’s right, you’re not going to talk them into a change of mind. You really are not. But you may be able to create a doubt that will cause them to think. And that would be a big thing. For example, let me give you an example not in in this situation. Suppose I say to you, you know, your kids are in sports and I’m telling you sports are not a good thing. Sports are really not a good thing for your kids you’ve really got to think about getting them out of sports. You’re going to say, Oh my gosh, you say, oh, that’s right. But if if you’re polite, you say, well, why do you think it’s bad? And if I give you some ideas about why I don’t think it’s a good idea and find out what your experience has been with your kids in sports have you ever gotten heard talk to you about sports? After a while, you’re going to say, well, you know that thank you very much i, I can see that you don’t think it’s a good idea, but I’ll think about that and you may go away thinking, well, you know, she’s kind of strange about that but you know, she did have some good points. I might think about that. I’ll talk to my husband about that of course, she doesn’t think she should be on baseball, but my husband’s the head of the baseball team but I’ll, you know, I’ll think about this. If you enter a doubt, remember the Holy Spirit is counseling you long after you finished counseling the person. So you’re planting ideas in the person who’s in a long term relationship or who’s in repeated committed, you know, uncommitted relationships repeatedly. So plant doubts, plant questions. And then maybe somebody else will say to her, you know, Mary, how come you’re not married to him or how come you, you know, you went with that guy and that guy and you’re still going with him. What’s what’s going on somebody else will create a doubt too, and hopefully she has enough friends that will help her think about what she’s doing. Also bring up the possibility of marriage. What is the why isn’t marriage possible for her? And don’t be afraid to ask the guy to come in. Don’t be afraid, Don’t be afraid to say, why don’t we ask Joe to come in let’s talk about it together, see what he thinks i know you think that maybe isn’t he isn’t right the time, you don’t have enough money and so on. But ask him to come in and let’s talk with him. This is really important. And kind of push it because there’s two parts of this. And you may be surprised and the guy may want to marry and she doesn’t. Or she may not know what he wants and be afraid to ask, or he may be afraid to ask her. I know a relationship what I saw recently, not too long ago, she just basically said, I don’t want to get married because I don’t think he’ll stay with me. And he said, I do want to stay with you and I want to be married to you. And she said, I don’t believe you i’ve been in a lot of relationships and none of them have stuck. And I believe that that’s what is going to happen with you. You’re not going to be with me. And I said, you know what the solution to this is i had just the solution to this. You guys stayed together they were living together. You guys stay together but don’t have sex. And they both looked at me like I was crazy. I said seriously, don’t have sex. Don’t have sex for six months and see if you can love each other through that time. Because you know, you don’t know you, JD Joe, you don’t know if he loves you because of the sex, do you? She said no. I said, John, you don’t know if she loves you because you’re satisfying her, do you? He said no. And you’ll never know that, will you if you get married, you’ll never know that. You will never know that unless you haven’t had sex, unless you have a committed relationship and a friendship without the sex. And I’ll make an appointment with you for six months. So I did and by gosh, they came back and it was the difference between night and day. And he said, I can’t believe this. I feel like a virgin. I feel like a virgin. And she said, you know, he stuck with me. He really was good to me. I think he does mean that he loves me. And it was a revelation to them. They had never experienced that. It was a revelation. And you know what, they got married, they and they had a, they developed a very good marriage, actually that marriage that was committed to waiting. And they also went into natural family planning, also went into natural family planning. Don’t be afraid to recommend abstinence. It has all kinds of advantages. The other thing I do in marriage, when I have a troubled marriage and there’s problems sexual sexually, I recommend natural family planning. You know why because there’s a periodic abstinence there. There’s a periodic time of abstinence, and then there’s sex in the fertile time, if you want it, if you want it or yours abstinence at that time too. And because the woman knows that her husband is abstaining for her, that means something to her, that means something to her. And you know, one of our sisters, one of our, I’m a sister of social service we’re a social work community and one of our sisters has a doctorate in social work. So she was commissioned by the Bishop to do a research study on the effectiveness and satisfaction rate of natural family planning. And she found that the men were more satisfied with natural family planning than the women because they they knew what time they were on and they knew what time they were off. And that was very satisfying to them. There was a regularity about the whole thing they could expect with their wife to respond to them to time. And they were respectful at another time and she was respectful of them. Though they also realized the respect that is necessary in marriage. And it was a wonderful experience for the relationship. So even with kids that are in a non marriage but living together relationship, don’t hesitate to recommend. Abstinence to find out what the what? What is this love about? Is this love sexual? Is there something else? What kind of commitment are you 2 have do you 2 have for each other? Give yourself six months see what happens. Are you friends or are you lovers are you sexual lovers? What are you what kind of relationship do you have? Talk to the guy about that. You might be surprised he might be much more immutable that than that that you that you know, the other thing the girls that in is in kind of a one night stands or repeated sexual sexual stuff. You probably you’re dealing with somebody that doesn’t have a lot of self esteem at that point in time. If you see that pattern, that’s a symptom of another of something else that’s happened to that girl. Women who can’t find any way of respecting themselves, there’s been something else that’s happened to them. And there’s different ways that you can ask that if you, if you suspect it. Again, you have to do it after you’ve established some rapport with the girl. And you might say something like, has anybody ever messed with you in a way that you didn’t launder, didn’t like or didn’t expect? When was that how did it happen? What did it do to how did it affect you? See what she says when you’re talking intimately and when you’re talking respectfully to her and she knows what your suggestions are really meant for her well-being She may tell you something. She may tell you about early sexual abuse or some kind of abuse. And then you say, OK, what do I do that i’m not a professional counselor. I know none of you are professional. Well, some of you may not be some of you may be professional counselors, but you’re not licensed counselors, but friends you are counselors. You are counselors. You are not licensed counselors. And women in a safe setting will tell you things that they wouldn’t tell their best friend. And in that, you have the same obligation as a professional counselor. You have the same obligation to be very respectful, very confidential, and very loving to that person. And you can listen to it and see if you can figure out any way that you can help her handle it in a different way other than just suffer under it. Does she need to talk to someone? Can you refer her? Can you get her someplace, someone who can help her? You can’t see this kind of case on an ongoing basis because you can’t afford to do it. I mean, you’re, you’re in crisis counseling you’re you’re in short term relationship you have repeated things you can’t see people over and over and over, but you’re often intake workers in a sense for, for something else. And if you see women who are in destructive relationships, you know, repeat relationships like that because of some kind of past sexual abuse, you can point out to her, Mary Jane, is this any reason? Do you think this has anything to do with what why you can let a guy have a one night stand with you because this happened to you. Could there be any relationship between those two things? What do you help her to ask questions that she may be asking herself? You’re not going to interpret anything to her, but you could ask the questions. Could there be any relationship here? Is there any way out of you feeling so badly about that i can understand that you feel put down about that, but I’m wondering, do you feel put down by these guys that are repeatedly having sex with you? The one night stands, she said no i feel good about them. I feel it makes up for it. Do you really think so? I wonder if there’s any other way that we can think of for you to get rid of those vast feelings from that last experience. You see what I’m saying ask the questions be skillful at asking questions and pondering with her and let her think through the things that she’s already thinking about. That’s the skill of counseling. That’s the skill of counseling. Now, in a pregnancy situation where you’re helping a woman deciding against abortion, you’re giving her all kinds of information, this, this, this, and this. And that’s what you’re supposed to do. But sometimes in some situations, you have to slip out of that because you’re helping things think through. You’re helping things think through what kind of sexuality do I want to have for myself? Am I really being loved? Is this what I want? You know, there’s something that God has given us in our hearts, every woman and every man, too. We want a permanent relationship. We want a relationship that’s good and solid where we can raise another family and take care of ourselves and our children. We want that we want to have children. That’s what we want. And we want to find the right guy for that. And that’s what women want. And they’re trying to do that in the best way they know how. And if they get off, someone has to help them think that through. So these are kind of some of the ways that you can do that. And I’m not saying you never give instruction i’m not saying that at all. But depending on the hardness of heart of the person you’re with or the inexperience of the person you’re with, you have to do what you can you have to be, you know, say Paul says I’m everything, I’m all things to all I’m in. That’s kind of what we are. I better stop i I don’t have a lot more time i know maybe I can stop for some questions or some case examples. Any questions could we go ahead and hire you Now what?
Should.
We go ahead and hire you now oh, hire me now. When you have the people that are doing this, you have to really be supportive to them because the girl will walk out and they won’t know what she’s going to do. So you have to really be supportive of her. How many of you are doing abstinence counseling now? Are you specialists or are you anybody in the center does abstinence counseling? Ok, Any questions or or case exam? Uh huh. Wait, wait a minute wait till we get a mic. We want to get this we want to get this for others to hear.
I had a young lady this happened for the first time the other day.
Speaking to the mic, we can’t hear.
Pardon.
Go ahead.
Ok, so she had already had one abortion, and she was kind of waffling back and forth, and she’s saying, no, she was keeping this baby. And then she said, well, I really wanted abortion, but my boyfriend wants to keep it. And then I talked to her a little bit about adoption and she said, Oh no, that baby would be here in this world, at least the one that I aborted is in heaven.
At least what?
The one I aborted is in heaven, so if I abort this one, basically it will be in heaven. I mean, what do you do with that?
At least what I didn’t hear that.
At least the baby is in heaven.
Oh, at least the baby is in heaven.
I mean, it’s done.
Yeah, so she said it was better to abort to have a baby in heaven. Yes. Ok, OK. Well, I can see her rationale. How did that affect you? That’s what I would say how did that affect you that you, you lost your baby she.
Didn’t act affected by it.
She what?
She she did not act affected by it, she said.
You were unaffected by it, OK.
No.
Would you do it happy the baby i’m I’m let’s role play for a minute, OK? So you feel good about your abortion because you know your baby’s in heaven, right?
Right.
Ok, well, I’m glad. I’m glad you feel that way i’m very glad you feel that way. You know why I’m glad? Because sometimes women who have abortions don’t feel that way. Sometimes they have sometimes they have symptoms afterwards they have feelings about like they they have trouble sleeping or they have had dreams or dreams about the baby. Sometimes they have flashbacks of the situation, sometimes they were feeling with regret or sometimes even later on they’ll think back, well, my baby would have been this, that age or that age. And you haven’t had any of those. I’m I’m role-playing with.
You oh, probably. My guess would be yes.
You have, yeah. You have had some of those yeah. Yes. Well, you know, that does happen to women that happens to women many times with women. And if you would ever like to talk with me about that or come back to the center because that’ll happen sometimes the further away from the abortion that it happens too. So I’m glad you’re, I feel you’re good. I’m glad you’re feeling OK now i really am because that doesn’t happen with everybody. But you’re feeling OK now and that’s good. You come back with us if you feel if any of those things start happening to you, if you have trouble sleeping or you feel just depressed or any of those symptoms, you come back OK, Because we’re always here for you, OK, OK.
And she really is coming back. She is coming back for an ultrasound she was, she’s very, very early so I got another chance at.
Ok, but you see that the technique you’re you’re you’re always open to her and someone who’s denying any effects of the abortion, you always give the symptoms of when you say just generally, I’m glad you’re not having i’m glad that’s not happening i’m so happy for you. And this is what happened to some girls. No, it isn’t happening to you right now but if it ever does, you come back because we’re here for you. You see what I’m saying? That’s it’s always our attitude. Feelings don’t happen on target they happen whenever they they really don’t. Ok. Thank you for that example. Any other. Oh oh, this this young lady here. I’ll get you oh, I’m sorry i’m sorry she has a bike oK, Alana.
Thank you for sharing your case example and I wonder if you would echo my thoughts, Sister Paula is one thing that I heard in this case study was at least the child’s in heaven that they’re not in this world and I really honed in on that and possibly exploring and asking questions like in your example well, what do you mean? What’s about this world compared to having an opportunity to explore what’s going on in that woman’s life where she wouldn’t want this child in this world and get a little more insight into where her head is at to provide her a more well-rounded support system when she does come back for that ultrasound and continue the journey on the center.
Yeah, that’d be another good follow up, OK.
So in regards to abstinence conversations, when I’m with a client, if it’s a negative test, it’s easier to have that conversation. Not a choice that they’re probably going to make, but we do talk about it. It’s when women have a positive test, they’re not in a committed relationship or it’s a relationship with somebody they’ve had for three months. How do you have good abstinence conversations with somebody who has a positive test and encourage that?
Well, for one thing, the most important thing about crisis intervention counseling is you deal with the problem that the person has given you. So you want to deal with that baby that’s the most important thing. That’s the essence of crisis intervention counseling you deal with the issue that the person brings in. Then, then and only then are they able to think about anything else and that’s with what about that guy that I got pregnant with, right that’s what you’re asking. What am I supposed to do with him? That’s what you’re asking, right or even like if they come back for earn while you learn and we’re talking to them, wait a minute, let’s get the mic for it don’t or even if they come back so.
Even if they’re coming back for like Earn while You Learn classes. And we’re meeting with them over several months and helping them to kind of make that choice even after their baby’s here because at this point their thought is well, I’m already pregnant so who cares?
That’s a really good time, though when you can bring up abstinence counseling is when they’re back for classes and when you, when they have to figure out what they’re going to do now, but they’re going to figure out how they’re going to date they’re going to date somebody else they’re going to date this guy and hopefully they’re talking with their counselor about that. Do I stick with this guy? And if I do, who am I with? What am I going to do? Or do I start dating somebody else and if I do, what do I do with them? When I, I used to work at an adoption agency and that was one of my most fun things we had a group together and one of the biggest issues that girls would talk about was how do I date now what do I do now when I start dating again after my adoption, after I placed my baby for adoption, after I had the baby? That’s a key time when you can also bring up abstinence. What would be the reasons to avoid all the stress of what I just threw been through and how can I avoid that? And what about abstinence as a way of avoiding that? What would be the advantages of that being very objective, but there’s a lot of advantages to it. I think we have one more question. Yes, I just wanted to tell you that I really enjoyed this part on abstinence. There are so many good points that you made on probing questions because we have, I have seen personally at our clinic when asking them why abstinence is a good decision, you know, what are the benefits of it. The two main things they almost always list is no brainers, no S, no brainers, no St dS and no pregnancies, no unplanned pregnancies. And they don’t seem to think beyond that but I just wanted to make a statement that these are some really good probing questions for them to think beyond that because that’s all they think about. I know those are the two things that we talk about St dS and and pregnancy, but really it’s a personal stuff that causes people to do or not do things. Frankly, I, I hate to say this, but people don’t, young kids are not that afraid of St dS. I mean, you know, they don’t say, Oh, I can’t have sex because I’m going to have an STD, because I’m going to have it with Joe and he’s perfectly OK i know he is. And I’m, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And pregnancy is not going to happen to us. But the personal issues, how am I feeling? How who am I? Those are the, it’s harder to get to you have to work harder at it. But they’re more powerful. They are more powerful and they also are the things that girls are always thinking about, already thinking about really. Ok sister, OK oh, she’s got a mic there. She’s got 1 mic there.
Ok I’m I’m just getting to what you are saying about personal the way they feel the self esteem because we see young girls and they are afraid to say no. How do you empower them and just build up their self esteem and to just learn that sex is not the only way that somebody is going to love them or that she is going to keep that person in her life?
Yeah, the power to say no. You have to build up with how you dress and how is he dressed remember how you’re stimulating him and how he’s stimulating you and that at certain point you have less and less and less ability to say no. And you have to say I honestly, gosh, I practice with kids i say, OK i say, honey, I just love you dearly. I want to have sex just for tonight and nothing else what do you say? Come on, What are you going to say to me no. How can you say no don’t you love me?
Yes I do, but not tonight.
Not tonight, tomorrow, or do you do you don’t love me tonight. Have a good time. Have a good time with your kids play it with them and just tell them, you know, I love that. Just have a good time with them and play it with them. Ok? God bless you all.