The ProLife Team Podcast 146 | Shari Richard

Shari, a veteran in the pro-life movement, recounts her journey from personal pain to empowering others through ultrasound technology, highlighting the transformative impact of God’s grace and truth in saving lives.


The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.

00:05 :

So Sherry, I’m excited to have you on the pro-life Team Podcast. Would you introduce yourself as if you were speaking to a room of pregnancy clinic directors and leaders at pregnancy clinics?

00:20 :

I’d love to and again, thanks Jake for having me on. My old pal from way back. Yeah, I’ve been involved in the pro-life movement, oh gosh, over 35 years. And I’ve been working with the pregnancy centers and utilizing ultrasound to show those babies in the womb in fact, I was the first one through window to the womb way back in 1989 and started my first medical ultrasound clinic which inspired thousands and thousands of you pregnancy centers across the country to learn ultrasound to utilize ultrasound and we are saving lives.

01:04 :

Awesome very cool so tell us, how did you get started in this journey and providing ultrasound to you know what did the beginning look like?

01:15 :

Oh, you know, it’s another one of those stories where God will take your biggest mistakes and use it for good and mine was a couple abortions one that my placenta abrupted and I uterus ruptured and found on the floor of the hospital and rushed me to emergency room blood transfusion and wanted to remove my uterus long story short, my mom said no and but i really regretted my abortions and the fact that I couldn’t have children after that. And when I went into ultrasound school, and that was the shock of my life when I realized that the babies I boarded were not blobs of tissue, but they were babies and I was seeing them every day and it was just reminding me of the pain and the guilt and so I was I just ran out to the Lord one day to a beach, and I prayed that he would heal my wound, to use my expertise of ultrasound, to even use my testimony so no woman would have to experience the pain that I had endured and by the miracle of God, I conceived the first of my three boys my ultrasounds went around the world and 12 languages before Internet and he uses my testimony with his love to show His forgiveness so it’s a full circle, Jake i mean, only God can do what He did through me.

02:48 :

And you said you were on the beach when you had that conversation or you were when you were praying?

02:54 :

I was with my dog i was. I can still remember it. I was on the beach and windy fall day and I just cried out to him and I felt his presence i felt his love at that time.

03:13 :

Wow, that sounds. That’s a beautiful picture. And thank you for sharing your story what? What is something that you have learned over these 35 years of doing so many ultrasounds, so many trainings? What’s something that you’ve learned that you would like, you know, basic clinic directors to know that may not be common knowledge?

03:40 :

You know they know this most of them know it’s something I continue to learn and something I continue to pray for that God would give me that unbelievable love for these women no matter what they’ve been through, to show us truth. That’s what I needed at the time i think we all need that every day and that’s what’s going to convert them is non judgmental in love. And i had the opportunity to train this week and you wouldn’t believe some of the stories that I had of women not knowing who the father was and the other one of having a fetal demise at 14 weeks and just crying with her and her partner and you never know what you’re gonna get but it’s his love that converts them.

04:42 :

How do you yeah how does God restore your passion and your energy with working in so many, you know, hard stories and hard scenarios how do you get refilled?

05:01 :

You know what, Jake? Sometimes I get so tired and sometimes I get so full of me that it’s only God’s grace that does it. No, it’s all him and I’m. I am always amazed at how he refills me and I spent a lot of time with him and I myself have been through some hardships not only was that incident that experienced over 40 years ago a major impact in my life, but just two years ago I almost died from being septic and was in a coma for a week and I think that was a reminder of how important life is and how important relationships are and that God restored my health once again so it’s fresh every day now wow.

05:48 :

Wow, that’s intense. So before the podcast, you had sent me this email with a few lies that are common. I could read some of them, but I was wondering if I if you could expand on your thoughts on some of these lies. And yeah, do you have that in front of you by chance?

06:12 :

I do i just pulled it up and you know, I want to start with this. I didn’t know what the pro-choice people did when I got into ultrasound. When I got into pro-life I just believed everybody believed in truth and providing information, informed consent, which we do in the medical field. So just to back up a little bit, my first experience with the Big Lie was my first speaking engagement before the United States House and Senate in 1990 and I was the first to testify utilizing ultrasound. And that is when they didn’t want to see the ultrasound they censored my ultrasound. The abortionist called an obligate parasite. And I was Jake i was in shock i thought, what I’m not making this baby move this is truth why don’t you want to see it? And that’s when I realized that they’re lying to women. And that’s when I realized that science and ultrasound and the testimonies of women are the greatest facts that you can’t dispute. So that’s what I’ve done all my life. But since the OH, I’m just so furious over this. Since the decision and the overturning of Roe V Wade. I am applauded by the lies that are out there. And i am angry at the last midterm elections that certain pro-life especially in Michigan, didn’t know how to debunk the lies. Kept saying no exception whatsoever, no exception. And people that don’t understand the rules and pro-life they believe that lie, that even the life of the mother, they would die even in ectopic pregnancy, they would die. Surgeons would get fired, lose their job. And that’s why we lost that election in Michigan that’s why we’re losing some of these states right now and we, as the pro-life community, need to really be educated to share the truth that is going out about these lies.

08:37 :

Yeah so tell us one of these lies and then, yeah, let’s, I mean, tell us, tell us your full thoughts on debunking it or what should be said about it.

08:48 :

Well, like I just said, they said that medical treatment wouldn’t be available for women that experience life and death situation that’s a lie. We see situations with miscarriages and one out of three pregnancies will end in a miscarriage. If they don’t have proper follow up, they could experience infection, septic, septic, go their blood septic and then die. Same with the chemical abortion. If you don’t have proper tests before you have that abortion, you could have an ectopic pregnancy at this time, your baby could be too far along, retain products again, products that left behind from baby tissue could be left. These girls are going into pregnancy centers with a positive pregnancy test, not knowing this and no one’s taken care of them. Who’s going to take care of them? They could die once again, we have to step up in the medical community, in the pregnancy centers and know when we have to properly refer these girls and most of all, inform the public of their rights for informed consent and to be treated when necessary.

10:23 :

So as a non medical person my understanding is that an ectopic pregnancy has similar symptoms to that of an abortion pill and so if someone has an ectopic pregnancy that and they and they essentially they need to have an ultrasound to find out their condition such as if they have an ectopic pregnancy is that is that is that why you know essentially because if it if it’s an ectopic pregnancy that abortion pill yeah they still have an atopic pregnancy that’s my understanding is that right.

10:59 :

Yeah, an atopic pregnancy is one that is implanted in the tube and we’re seeing more and more of those because of the increased rate of STD’s chlamydia and scar tissue. And if that if she went, she goes ahead and has any kind of abortion For that matter, they’ve either missed the ectopic or in the case of a chemical abortion, could cause it to rupture and bleed to death. Again, an ultrasound is necessary and follow up HCG blood tests are necessary to evaluate an ectopic. But the other thing is, what about It wasn’t until recently, about five years ago, that the FDA increased the age where you could have a chemical abortion. I think it’s up to 10 weeks now. Those babies are pretty big. They’re measuring about 3 inches it’s a lot of tissue, a lot of placenta going on and therefore a lot of bleeding. A lot of bleeding. Well, if she doesn’t have an ultrasound, what happens if she’s 12 weeks, she’s 13 weeks, She’s 14 weeks even further. We are and now we have the mail orders. They don’t even have a doctor they don’t even know who their doctor is. What are we doing? It’s disgusting to me, Jake. I my heart just these women are going to be dying they’re going to left be left infertile they’re going to be left with lots of complications if and we in the in the pro-life movement we really got to get out and get this message out we’ve got to get the truth out you know and now they want to kill these babies up to term it’s and you’re doing it, Jake you’re doing a great job so is the pro-life movement but we got to step it up. We really do and that’s why, I mean, I appreciate so much what you’re doing. I really do. It’s just like breaks me in there.

13:16 :

Yeah, and I don’t think I’m doing well i feel like the pro-life movement is aware, but people outside of our movement, I don’t think are aware of what’s really going on. I feel like, you know, it’s like when you start to, when you start to go, if you want to go buy a certain car, you’ll start to notice that car everywhere on the road. You know, I think pro lifers are always thinking about pro-life topics. You know what can we do we’re praying about it. But people outside of this work I think are often left unaware of what’s happening and we do have a need for messaging be brought into the mainstream messaging. And we really have a need for media to talk about these situations with sincerity and not with not with late night humor or with yeah or just, you know, picking up false beliefs and echoing them. We really need truth to be sincerely talked about.

14:22 :

You’re right, boy and how can we do that you know why? You know we’re preaching to the choir so many times like you just said, the pro-life movement is aware of it. Just to give you an example, Jake, my family, my sister’s pretty liberal, but I think since she was at my deathbed, we became two years ago, we became best friends now and she accepts my side of the story and I accept her we don’t fight anymore. But she said to me over the midterms that she voted for pro abortion and voted for abortion rights because she was applauded that there was no exception sherry, what kind of pro lifers are there are they out there that they don’t care for women? I said, I know Kathy that’s not true, though. And if I was you, if I was, if I heard what you heard and didn’t know the truth, I probably would have voted the same way. And she said, Sherry, I thank you so much for what you’re doing and you’re educating people, but out there they don’t know i didn’t know and it’s she was sincere with me and I said Kathy, you’re totally right.

15:47 :

Yeah, i remember when i was at church when, you know during that midterm when people were, you know, that false belief was being pushed very strongly that women who have ectopic pregnancies would not be allowed to get treatment. I remember hearing that and I’ve first heard about it with someone talking afterward after a church service. And I knew it wasn’t true, but I didn’t have like evidence or I didn’t have like a quick reference piece because that’s the first I heard of it. But yeah, but that was being promoted and obviously false, falsely being promoted because that’s never been a desire of anyone in the pro-life movement is to endanger women or the moms that’s, you know, the goal is to be closer to the Hippocratic Oath, which is to save as many lives as possible, to save all the patients in the room, not to pick and choose which patients to work on and help.

16:50 :

Yeah, the church. You know what A lot of people in the church, they don’t even know. So we need to even educate the church people if they think that we don’t care about women when we allow that message to go out undisputed, not disputed, not knowing the facts. And yeah, I did my best, Jake, to get this message out before the election. I emailed it everywhere i sent it everywhere, but unfortunately it didn’t get out in time and very few people understood like you just said, the issue understood how to debunk the lies and they’re really good at what they say and what they do even the medical field, a lot of the doctors, they didn’t know they believed it and a lot of the centers who were referring to doctors for questionable necktopic or complications, they were not being seen in the so we really need to get that information out and we need to educate our doctors. And you know, the other big lie is this where they still lie this cracks me, doesn’t crack me up it makes me sick but do you remember back in 1973 when they said that abortion could not, could not be done past so many weeks in certain states except for the health of the mother? And then under Dole versus Bolton, health was defined as physical and emotional if it’s the wrong sex, you name it, you could have an abortion. So therefore abortion was legal up until term for health reasons. That’s always been the case that’s nothing new. So all of a sudden when they said health, they confused that when the parole boards with life threatening situation, it’s not the same. We’ve always been, you know, for life, like you just said for both first for the mother, if the mother doesn’t live, the baby’s not going to live. But it’s rare. It is rare, but it’s when people start to find out and we got good people out there, didn’t we got basically good people when they find out like my sister, like others, they say, whoa, I never knew, I never know and so, with love, With facts, with truth. Get Let’s continue to get this word out.

19:32 :

Yeah, it feels like, you know, the sources that push these false beliefs should be held accountable at some level. And, you know, they should, you know, either be scarred or marked as being a false, you know, pushing false information or maybe they should be, you know we should have, yeah, they should have articles published that, you know that flip the narrative with the truth. But it just feels really sad that false beliefs get such excellent mainstream airtime. And the yeah, and the corrections don’t.

20:11 :

Isn’t that the truth it’s not only with the abortion issue it’s, you know, with the politics it’s with so much that’s out there and it’s dividing us but.

20:23 :

So, Sherry, if you oh.

20:25 :

You think that you’ll find it? No, that’s no go ahead you go.

20:30 :

No, that’s good. So looking over your time working with so many precis clinics and helping really just sounds like a large number of people being empowered to read scans, to perform scans. Where have you? What’s the story that comes to mind where you’ve seen God’s fingerprints in that work? Yeah, I know, there’s probably lots of stories so what’s one that comes to mind first?

20:57 :

Well, so many like you said, Jake. But you know what? I’m gonna go back to one of my very first ultrasounds. Way back in 1990 I started the very first pregnancy center i worked with the doctor and comes a pregnant woman and she was about ten eleven weeks pregnant and as many of you pro lifers in pregnancy centers know out there that is a very active baby, right so that baby was so active it wouldn’t stop moving i mean, more active than, you know, I had seen for a while and you know, I asked if I could videotape it for her, which I did and so afterwards she, I said I’m going to name your baby George, but I don’t know the sex yet so she took the video, she took the pictures. And I used that video tape as my first speaking engagement before Congress so that was little old George, which happened to be a girl that I took and I not only took her to Congress, I took her around the world. And that’s what influenced so many people it went on demos, commercials, it went all over so what about a year later she called me and she said, Sherry, I wanna thank you because you didn’t know at that time. I was scheduled for an abortion the next day and I didn’t know i thought she acted so happy and she was, you know, laughing with me i had no idea. And So what did God use and it was one of the very first ultrasounds that went around the world, was George, who was scheduled for an abortion the next day. That you couldn’t, you couldn’t say the lie of the BLOB of tissue anymore ’cause it was jumping it was moving. And I really believe that God has given us ultrasound for such a time as this. And to show the truth, you can’t debate it you cannot. And now they’re not they say so what, It’s a baby well, it is a baby and that’s one thing we got out. What you do with that information is going to be now on your soul.

23:27 :

Wow, that’s awesome. So over the over the years I’ve heard that 70 some % of women who see their baby in the womb through an ultrasound are more likely or you know will end up flipping their decision on choosing you know wanting to choose abortion and are open and then decide to choose life. Can you explain why? You know what is it about seeing, you know some a baby like George, you know little Georgie in the womb that will make a woman change her mind or a little female George, you know, making her change her mind about deciding that, you know wanting to have that abortion can you describe that in more detail like, what’s it? What causes her to change her mind so often when seeing that window into the womb?

24:28 :

You know, as I kind of said in the beginning, it’s a number of things. First of all it’s prayer and a lot of these centers are praying every morning before those girls come in and it’s the love of that counselor that’s very important how you interact and how she interacts with you right from the beginning that she can trust you. And the other thing is again, seeing her baby on the screen in a non judgement mental way or her boyfriend or partner or husband seeing it, then all of a sudden she gets feels she has the support she needs if he provides it for her and he is impacted. Her family members are impacted her parents if they’re coming. The other thing, which is very important, Jake, is they’re not going to come for that ultrasound appointment if you if the counselor on that phone says no, we don’t do abortions, but we want you to come in and see your baby. Now think of you in her case would you really, if you were considering abortion, really want to see your baby would wouldn’t you want to run and hide you just don’t want to know sometimes because you know deep in your heart, but to be confronted with the ultrasound. But this is what is doing it. And listen carefully. We have found that one out of three pregnancies will end in miscarriage in that first trimester. If the girl is going to have a miscarriage, then she doesn’t have to go forward with the abortion and have a natural a natural miscarriage, which is safer for her. No guilt whatever. You’re out to care for the mother at this time, and this is a fact, and this is what I teach them in my training. I teach them how to recognize whether a pregnancy is going to continue or not and there’s a lot of variables that they have to know on ultrasound, is it implanted high in the uterus? Is the SAC regular? Is there a heartbeat when there should be a heartbeat? Is number of things again above, you know a lot of people’s you know, information. Too much information but basically if you take this training and you learn this, you can let the girl know, hey, I’m not seeing what I expect to see. Hold off on that abortion. You can even, you know refer her to a doctor, refer to come back. But that is saving a lot of these girls from having the abortion right there. An abortion that she would have had and never needed and would never know that her baby was never alive or there. And all her life she’s going to have to suffer from that. So all around it’s truth, love information that makes.

27:31 :

Sense that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, fine. You know, come in and find out if your pregnancy is viable. And yeah, before you have an abortion without, you know, what, if your baby is not, if your baby is already passed away or is not viable, then yeah, it makes sense to avoid that trauma, avoid everything with that decision and then that provides an opportunity for her to see without, you know, without even having to ask, would you like to come see your baby, but rather we’d like to come, you know, verify that your pregnancy is viable that makes a lot of sense. That’s very helpful and smart.

28:10 :

Makes a big difference. And you know what else, Jake, I just found when she sees that you are truthful with her, even, you know if she sees that it’s the baby’s alive and growing. I mean the honesty of the love of what she received from the center is going to make a difference to the fact that she doesn’t have to rush and make this decision right away, ’cause our usually our first decision and we make it out of fear is the wrong decision. So yeah, it’s a great.

28:44 :

So Sherry, I’ve got a history question for you. Do you know where the first, you know which Prancy clinic first had an ultrasound machine in use? And do you know anything about, you know, one of the very first Tracy clinics that would have used an ultrasound machine for the first time? If you don’t know, Jake is.

29:11 :

That a trick question? Oh, I don’t.

29:13 :

Know, I’m just wondering if you if you would know i’m just curious i’ve heard Tom Glessner say that he was part of the first clinic getting an ultrasound machine i was just wondering if you knew that or if you knew anything. Yeah, like because it’s such an amazing tool in the pricey clinics and I’m not sure when they were starting to get used in pricey clinics like 1990 Sounds like that’s pretty close to the very beginning of ultrasounds used in the clinic like I’m thinking that you might have. Was that, do you know of any clinics before that one that might have been using ultrasound or is that that’s pretty early?

29:55 :

Yeah, I’ll tell you the story it’s kind of an exciting one but remember I told you about the prayer when I asked God to use me well, he used my window to the womb AVHS video and took it around the world. And then it was less than a year later, someone says, you know, I was speaking at different pregnancy centers, he said. He said, Cherry, why don’t you ask a donor out there or somebody has the money for an ultrasound machine, Why don’t you put it out there. That was 1989 so I went out there and that day, that night at that center, we got a check enough, a big enough for an ultrasound machine. So then they bought the ultrasound machine i started my very first pregnancy clinic utilizing ultrasound i networked with the doctor back then, what we did is I had 12 centers in this Michigan. They all referred to me and my doctor for their ultrasounds and then I would send them back to their center so we service 12. And then Tom Glessner was so funny he came and goes. Sherry, I got to talk to you. How are you doing this so I told him he goes, Sherry, this is the most powerful tool and I’m going to help you. And we’re going to do this and we’re going to impact and get ultrasound in every center across this country and his prediction came true. And it’s made a difference it’s so exciting. It is. God is so good yeah.

31:34 :

So that might have actually been the very first ultrasound in a clinic. And it makes me think the donors who gave to that, for them to understand that vision is miraculous and then for someone in the medical field to figure it out or for yourself to bring that in is amazing. But i think just as amazing as those donors who helped finance something that was not normal, that was not even like a new trend, but it literally a brand new idea. That’s awesome.

32:07 :

You know what i still have a videotape of that when that I still have that somewhere on avhsi think American Life League interviewed me and showed that. But yeah, isn’t that amazing how just we never know what a difference we’re going to make by just being obedient to God and not working together and working together each of each of us have our part. My gift was ultrasound and you know, everybody has their part look at you. You’re such a techie i remember when you did my website. I go help, Jake, help. I don’t know how to do this. You were the mister techie. We all have our we all have our gift, you know?

32:54 :

That’s true, yeah. And there’s a lot of different body parts within this body that we work within And so it’s really important for all of us to yeah it’s good that we work together because everyone’s got different skills and different we have connected callings to work together yeah.

33:15 :

Exactly. The arms and the feet the Bible says that and one of the scriptures out there. So.

33:22 :

Yeah that’s good. So what is, what’s something that you pray about regularly, you know, working in the medical world, working with so many people on ultrasounds and trainings and what’s one of your, yeah, how would you describe your prayer life in that space?

33:41 :

You know, it’s changed a lot through the years i think it’s just part of getting older i think you realize that you know, life is precious. And again, we all are in here together my prayer is that God would remain, keep me humble, fill me with His love and passion and that I really, Jake, I just really want to do what he wants me to do i don’t really want to do my own, my own agenda. I just, you know if he wants to still use me, then you know he can use me if not, that’s OK too, because all my arms and feet out there are use. He’s using it like you and everybody else so I don’t know. I just want to be where I’m supposed to be at the right time with the right attitude and the right heart. Does that make sense?

34:45 :

Yeah no, it’s just that’s good.

34:48 :

I just don’t want to waste any time doing my thing. I don’t want to waste any time fighting with her or competing with our fellow friends and Christians. I want the truth out. I want the Christians and the pro lifers to all come together and let’s get this truth out. Let’s get this truth out quickly we have to oh, that’s.

35:18 :

Good. Going back to that first ultrasound machine back in 8990 what what? Who is part of your support team, you know that helped make that come together do you remember the name of the clinic that you know the name of that first clinic and do you remember the brand that was like the ultrasound machine, Like which what ultrasound machine was brought in for that very first one?

35:45 :

Well, I gave a speaking I gave engagement in Kalamazoo Pregnancy Center an interesting side note. That was where I went to college and that’s when I had my first abortion so isn’t that another it’s another thing that now God turned that city around. But then another machine was donated and that was with Problem Pregnancy Center in Southfield and Doctor Barkay, he’s passed away now. He was my doctor that read and ordered all the all the ultrasounds, ’cause you needed a doctor. And you know back then I, you know, I didn’t have a nonprofit. We didn’t need a whole lot of money because back then all the centers would just send their clients to me and I’d send them back. You know, I had a couple volunteers that worked with me and God, just provided i don’t even know i all I can honestly say Doctor Barkay and me, we all kind of donated our talents and our gifts, but I it wasn’t like we had a lot of money and it was before the Internet days so you didn’t have the opportunity to. It was different back then. So yeah and it was an Hitachi that’s the name. It was a four oh five hitachi ultrasound portable ultrasound.

37:29 :

Oh wow so the very first one was a portable. How big or small was a portable ultrasound in 89.

37:36 :

Oh, it was. It was just like the portables it was a little bit bigger than today because today they have lap, lap size, ultrasounds. Back then it was, I’d say 2 foot by two foot i could carry it and it had a cart and but the resolution wasn’t quite as good but it was pretty good enough for you know, you see the baby and I could take it to different places which I would do because I could carry it. So yeah and you know what guess what? Back then, an ultrasound today you can get a portable ultrasound i’m. I sell ultrasound machines too. You can get like a Mandre Z 60 for around 19 with Doppler and with color. This one didn’t even have that, and it went for forty thousand dollars back then. If prices have come down tremendously, yeah, it’s fun at the same time, quality’s gone up price has gone down yeah.

38:50 :

Wow and it’s exciting. I wonder what % of Princey clinics have an ultrasound machine i would guess like 70 but I really don’t know i’m a large % are medical. Obviously there’s still several non medical centers, but seems like most have a ultrasound machine in their services that they offer in house now.

39:13 :

Yeah but The thing is, I always said in the beginning, Jake, that not everyone of you have to have an ultrasound machine that’s again the networking that you can refer to the center in your community that has ultrasound and has a doctor. Because my concern is there is a lot of centers out there that are not properly trained. And it’s important that if you are trained that you get continuing education. And that’s what I’m going to be doing next is I have a webinar that I’m going to give and you can be a member and every month I’m going to cover a different subject for nurses that are a member and we’re going to record it, send it back to you. And it’s a continuing education. It’s not something you learn and you’re done, especially when we’re at. The risk and complications that are out there today do the chemical abortions so that’s what I’m going to be doing next i’m going to be launching that, you know, pretty soon, next month or so, and I’m going to be launching that Talbot Center so that they have continuous support.

40:30 :

So Sherry i was at the NIFLA conference several months ago and I believe I was talking with this lady. I think her name was Dottie and she told me that they have a desire. She has a desire for people who do ultrasound scans to be able to get feedback on reads because sometimes when someone’s in like a rural community and they only get let’s say 3 clients to do a scan on per month and maybe only two per month, and then they don’t get enough practice or ongoing scans that keep to keep active on that skill set. What are your thoughts on you know how someone can you know what are your thoughts on that situation when someone only gets a few scans a month and they really desire more to keep on top of their craft of being good at scanning?

41:23 :

That’s the problem too yeah, that is and you have to keep scanning regularly. Well i offer hands on training up to 4 to 6 times a year in Michigan and we bring in models and I keep my training small though because I want the girls i you know, I don’t take any more than four or five students where there’s some of the trainers out there. I believe heartbeat is now doing it and they take like 25 students but they say they want them to get their scans from before they come. But the problem with that is if you’re getting taught by another nurse that’s doesn’t you know she’s not qualified as an RDMS. Bad habits are it’s almost like can develop you’ve got to get trained right and proper so I think it’s important that before you choose who you want to get your training from and you don’t definitely don’t have to go through me in fact i only take five at a training section so I’m but my webinars are gonna be anybody can come to that it’s important that you continue training the other way that you can get training and more scans is advertised for models i do that every couple every couple months for my training and it you can do models to continue scanning and these girls love to have pictures of their baby and the experience of seeing their babies so there’s always, you know, opportunities to practice. And you know what else, Jake, there is a lot of RDM SS like myself that want to be used they’re realizing that they want to be used in their area of expertise to help pregnancy centers so network with your community find those stenographers out there that can help you with the scans. So it’s out there, you just have to reach out.

43:32 :

That makes that’s really good. Well, so Sherry, how when it comes to like how things have changed in the pro-life movement, has that affected like when it comes to Roe being overturned by Dobbs and states changing laws, has that affected your work in some way or is your is your work. Yeah how has that in fact impacted, you know, scanning and training and helping centers with their ultrasounds, How has that has that had an influence on your work area of work?

44:12 :

Just, I think, like I said earlier, it’s just really educating these young girls that they don’t have to make that abortion decision that day it’s available. And Dobbs, I mean, it only affected a few states in the states that have affected it seem like now it’s turning because of the lies, you know, and I just really think, you know, I’m continuing to do what I always have done is say, you know, we don’t do abortions, We care about you come on in, let’s see where this pregnancy is progressing. See, even if you’re going to possibly have a miscarriage and it’s still your decision, we just want to make sure that you have the information to make an informed and safe decision for yourself. And that’s the truth. If she doesn’t get that ultrasound, you know she it. She’s not going to know, you know, and she’s not going to know how far along she is she’s going to make sure that she doesn’t have nicked up but she could be having a miscarriage and may not need it so I don’t think we need to change our strategy as much as we can’t be sending, OK, It used to be and I can understand this cause NIFLA and HARPY and Carenet, you know they’re kind of like the legal firms ahead of everybody but IT and I know I talked to Tom at NIFLA and them and he’s changing it but it used to be that if you had a previous topic, if you have any kind of pain, if you’ve had any kind of bleeding, like no, we don’t want to see you but that’s the norm with a lot of our girls and ultrasound is non invasive, especially just the trans abdominal and that information, you know, we don’t want to turn those women away. It’s not going to put them at any higher risk so everybody has their own different rules and it’s up to your medical director to make that final decision. And I’m not trying to tell any center how to do it, but I think it’s important to kind of evaluate your policies and procedures each year and I know NIFLAS does that and they’ve got new ones out coming all the time. And be on top of the changes that are being made and be prepared to make changes and keep up on what’s the latest and what’s needed so yeah.

46:42 :

And I know that, yeah, like Tom Glessner with Nephla will always say, we you know a clinic provide a pricing clinic provides limited ultrasounds in order to make it so we’re focusing on our sphere of focus with that word, limited with an ultrasound scan, with. Should the ultrasound sonographer always look for an ectopic pregnancy is that something that is always on the checklist, or is that only if there’s like a reason to look?

47:14 :

You know what if you see an intrauterine pregnancy, and that’s when you see that cute little gestational SAC in the uterus. 99 9 % of ectopics are never associated with the intrauterine pregnancy so now don’t go looking for something that’s, you know, not there. But I do train you to you have to know your uterus so if you have a positive pregnancy test and you don’t see something in the uterus. Now, I just did a lecture on this last year at Carenet it’s a real it was a really important lecture needed by a lot of centers. How do you know if that pregnancy is not too early or if it’s an ectopic so I gave a complete lecture on that, and I’m going to be doing a workshop on that in my webinars in my future webinars. But that’s The thing is Jake, we cannot wait till six and a half, seven eight weeks to get our girls in for an ultrasound is what we used to do, because we might miss that ectopic ’cause it’s too early. But now if you don’t get her in, guess who’s gonna get her in for that chemical abortion? And now, if you are properly trained transvaginally, we can see an intrauterine pregnancy as early as 4 5 weeks and then we see the yolk SAC at 5 5 weeks and we see the heartbeat at six weeks. But you must be trained properly and that is what even NIFLA was saying we might need to get these girls in earlier now and so we’re all, and I was at Carenet. We’re all kind of coming together on board and consulting the experts of what can we do to do this and do it safe for the center’s liability and for the moms and it’s the real thing is proper training, proper education?

49:28 :


49:29 :

Awesome does that make sense or am I above sometimes? Sometimes I think I talk above people, but you’re so smart does that make sense?

49:37 :

I think so it’s it sounds to me like if the pregnancy is in the normal you know if it if you know if it’s implanted in the normal area and it’s not in the fallopian tube. It sounds like the chance of having twins were ones planted in the fallopian tube and ones in the in the womb would be almost like non existent like I don’t think that’s a scenario that seems to actually you know it sounds like that’s not as yeah it’s essentially if you if you see one where it’s supposed to be then now you know where the where the positive pregnancy test came from. And if you don’t see one there then that’s what that’s the reason to go check the fallopian tube to see if see if the pregnancy is there. That’s what it sounds like.

50:23 :

Yeah and like I said, i’m not saying never in fact, I did have a case. She was on fertility pills and I did have that case very rare. But you know, centers are doing limited ultrasound. But do you see what the difference is listen, you’ve got to know, is this pregnancy you? You know what it’s almost like you got to play detective and almost get into that girl’s personal privacy life. But what you really got to do, Jake, you got to find as close as you can if you’re not seeing that IUP, you’ve got to find the date of conception as close as you can and granted, a lot of these girls aren’t going to know a lot of them have multiple partners, but then you’ve got to ask for your periods normal have were did you have? Would you know the dates that you had sexual relationship how far apart were they from each other? Were you using any type of birth control? Maybe one time you did and the other time they didn’t so then you think, well, if they used a condom and then they used the didn’t use the condom again, then that would probably be more likely. So you’re trying to get and you’re asking all these questions and they sound real personal, but your goal is to get as close as you can to the date of conception. Because if you know the closeness of that date of conception and she should be 7 weeks and you’re not seeing an IUP, you call 9-1-1 You get this girl out of here, ’cause that’s you should see some. But if she’s coming to like 4 weeks, you may be able to say you can you can come back and within the week and we’ll take another look because that gestational SAC grows one millimeter a day. So there will be a change if it’s if it’s still in the tube and driving down and going to implant in the uterus, it was just too early. So the dilemma is it too early or is it an ectopic and this is all part of my lecture that I really go into deep it’s you got to wrap your head around it but it it’s one way of not you know of being able to kind of decide you know kind of a lot of information but.

52:56 :

No, that’s yeah and it’s such it’s so helpful for you to explain it and yeah, I’m just so glad that you’re part of the team when it comes to, yeah, making a difference and serving God. Sherry, would you wrap up our podcast by praying here at the end of this podcast and with the hope that those who are listening will pray alongside you?

53:20 :

Oh, I’d love to. Thank you, Lord. I just thank you for all the pregnancy centers that are out there, all the volunteers, the counselors, the pro lifers, those that have contributed. And also the groups that are out there utilizing their skills like Jake and Nivla, Kiernan, all of the wonderful people that you have trained and equipped for this purpose lord and I pray that we get the words out and the lies exposed and that truth would go forth and that we would come together and there would be a tremendous, tremendous revival in our land when we come to the realization that we have killed our children and get on our knees and forgive us, Lord, just bring us all together in unity and love. In Jesus name amen.