The ProLife Team Podcast 142 | Alan Aversa

Hear Alan’s prolife thoughts as someone running for political office with a strong pro-life candidate.


The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.

Jacob Barr    00:05

So Alan, I’m excited to have you on the pro-life Team Podcast. Would you introduce yourself as if you were talking to a group of pregnancy clinic directors?

Alan Aversa    00:17

Yeah oh, that’s interesting so my name is Alan Aversa. I’m a graduate of the University of Arizona here in Tucson or in Arizona. Lived in Arizona since 2004 and I’m running currently for public office in Congressional District 3 for US house of Representatives as a pro-life candidate, as an independent to promote the pro-life cause especially that you know we are human beings from the moment of conception. So I’m very unapologetically pro-life from the very moment of conception, with no exceptions i mean, if it’s an innocent human being, it deserves to be protected. Ok, Yeah so that’s good university of Arizona. Yeah when I was there, I was actually the president of the pro-life Club at the U of A I’ve been involved in a lot of pro-life activities. So yeah.

Jacob Barr    01:17

Awesome so what how’s it, you know, what’s been your experience running as a openly pro-life politician? What’s that been like?

Alan Aversa    01:29

It’s tough to get votes. About 10 years ago I ran in Iowa as an independent as well and I only got about 4000 votes so it’s just less than a couple % of the whole. But yeah, it’s very tough to be especially well in the Democrat Party essentially, you have to be pro abortion. Even in the Republican Party, though, there’s a lot of exceptions that you have to kind of know, oh, I know, what about rape and incest and all that and so it’s hard to be a principled pro-life candidate in the political sphere so yeah, it’s difficult.

Jacob Barr    02:10

So yeah, So what are your? You know when you’re if you get elected, what’s something that you might try and do that would reflect your poll life values?

Alan Aversa    02:23

So I’m very big promoter of the personhood amendment i think there should be an amendment to the Constitution recognizing that we are human persons from the moment of conception. This follows from the fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution which says that there are no protected classes of or groups out there on so you know blacks and the time leading up to the Civil War, you know they were recognized by the fourteenth Amendment as being just like any other group of people and I think the same should be said about the unborn too that they’re not a special class of human beings they deserve the right to life just like us born human beings deserve. So yeah, personhood amendment is something that I would promote.

Jacob Barr    03:11

Yeah, that makes. That’s good. So when it comes to running, well what you know, what’s your who’s your candidates and what positions do they have on this topic or issue?

Alan Aversa    03:27

So in my district here, yeah, I mean we have a pretty good pro pro-life candidate that runs for the GOP party. But the problem is in this district is only about 15 % Republican and so we have another candidate, I’m not really sure who this who’s going to be picked for the Democrat side. But yeah, so even though there is a good Republican candidate here, it’s very difficult because there’s only 15 % Republican in this district so that’s one kind of one reason why I’m running as an independent because I want to draw the votes away from the Democrats and I’m actually running not to say you know vote for me or anything because i really don’t think that I’m going to be elected i’m running more to show you know you shouldn’t be voting for anybody that supports abortion and taking the rights of unborn children you know their right to life away from them. I so my campaign is primarily you know don’t vote for people who support abortion. I’m not really going out there saying you know vote for me or so you know I’m very i know the Republican candidate here he’s very good he ran the last election cycle, but he, which is, I mean he got about a quarter of the vote, which is pretty good considering you know, there’s not that many, there’s not a quarter of Republicans in this district so yeah, i’m not running to compete against him or anything i’m running more to draw votes away from you know, the independents that might eventually vote Democrat and you know, we got a lot of independents here i think it’s like 35 or 40 % independent. So, you know, I’m going to try to convince them, you know, don’t vote for this candidate that’s supporting abortion. Vote for the one that supports unborn children’s rights.

Jacob Barr    05:16

So what are your thoughts on Planned Parenthood and you know, why it’s being funded or, you know, how the government is giving Planned Parenthood money, which as the, yeah, number one abortion provider in the US or in the world?

Alan Aversa    05:33

Yeah and also, you know they are in the schools too, which is so I’m a I’m a teacher so I’m education is another topic that really interests me and that’s how they get their agenda in by you know the sex Ed programs that are put into the schools and so yeah, Planned Parenthood started out promoting contraception but they knew that would lead to abortion so they’re you know they early on in Planned Parenthood’s foundation in the nineteen twenties and thirties I think it was called the Birth Control League at that time with Margaret Sanger. Margaret Sanger actually died in Tucson. Interestingly they have a memorial for her at Planned Parenthood in Tucson which is really interesting. But they knew, you know, they knew that we can’t promote abortion all just straight people wouldn’t accept that the early feminists, Susan B Anthony and the other ones, you know, they were all pro-life And so they. So it was kind of a gradual thing they started promoting contraception and they knew when that fails, well, we’ll have abortion as an option. And so that’s how they started out in the United States and then eventually, yeah, of course, the one all around the world they’re definitely the largest single abortion provider in the whole world, Yeah so I don’t think taxpayer money should be funding Planned Parenthood or anything like that,

Jacob Barr    07:09

So from a political viewpoint, what would it look like for Planned Parenthood funding to stop or for Planned Parenthood to be, well, shut down or to end to, you know, to have Planned Parenthood ended because they get so much funds from the government it’s almost like they have unlimited funds at some levels because of the amount of money that they have obtained.

Alan Aversa    07:35

Yeah and they say that they, you know, do have that abortion isn’t their primary business they actually say that, but it actually they make a big share of their profits off of abortion. And yeah, I mean I think we heard about the mammogram thing you know, people they say, well, they do mammograms well, they actually don’t. You know, you call in and try to get one they don’t have that. And so yeah, a lot of the time it’s but oh you’re against Women’s Health if you take funding away from Planned Parenthood when really that’s not true. There’s definitely a lot of alternative crisis pregnancy centers, very good alternatives for supporting the women through their whole pregnancies and giving them all the care they need, even afterwards helping them find find a job and things like that so actually, I mean in Arizona there used to be, I think it was something like 8 or 12 Planned Parenthood’s and now I think we’re only just down to a couple. So Arizona is an instance of, you know what happens when you cut the funding to Planned Parenthood’s.

Jacob Barr    08:44

I was looking at the stats of a Planned Parenthood comparing the number of abortions they provided compared to the number of adoption referrals. And it was 200 to 1 to like half a % of the women that went into a Planned Parenthood got an adoption referral compared to, yeah, so 199 that had an abortion there was one that had a referral to an adoption agency. Yeah, that was the data from one location.

Alan Aversa    09:18

Since the 1973 with Roe V Wade, the adoption rate has just been plummeting. I mean it was I have a cousin that placed her child in into adoption and she was a teenage pregnancy and but that was many years ago. I mean tonight, today I don’t, I haven’t heard of anybody to do that so it is because I mean yeah, adoption needs to be promoted more yeah our previous governor, Governor Ducey here, was very supportive of adoption he had a lot of adoption programs put in place.

Jacob Barr    09:55

What are your thoughts about the you know, Trump who’s running for president in November? You know, what does that mean for when it comes to you know, Trump and what he stands for when it comes to being pro-life what does that sound like to you when it comes to policies that he might, you know, take action on or things that he might do what are your thoughts on that?

Alan Aversa    10:23

He hasn’t. I mean, he’s been saying some strange things, like that comment, but where he said, oh, women don’t know they’re pregnant until, you know, after eight weeks or something and now he’s made some kind of odd comments recently but when he was president and even before that, he said, yeah, we’ll get some Supreme Court justices in there we’ll be able to overturn Roe V Wade and then that’s actually what happened i mean, so he. You know, he saw that but he hasn’t been putting in. He hasn’t, he definitely hasn’t talked about any sort of personhood amendment or anything like that i mean that would be a good thing. You know, I think the Republican Party needs to get back to, you know, President Lincoln you know, Lincoln was a Republican. He was the one that abolished slavery. You know, we have something even worse than slavery today with, you know, what is it a couple million babies up per year in the United States are killed in their mother’s wounds i mean, so I think the Republican Party as a whole needs to kind of get back to this we are living in a time very similar to you know what was leading up to the abolition of slavery or the you know, there are different states i think it’s Missouri, it’s completely outlawed and then state right next to there it’s legal so you know it was kind of very similar to what happened in the pre civil War United States you know some states were very opposed to slavery some states were completely fine with it and you know we have to come to a consensus as a nation you know about you know, is this a human being or not. So I heard it actually an interesting theory you know the how the Dobbs case was leaked before they actually decided it and somebody had an told me an interesting theory that he thinks that it was Justice Roberts that actually leaked it just to show what would, you know what the reaction would be because some of the other justices they did seem to be getting close to affirming you know, that we have to say if is this a human being or not you know we have to address that question in the court and then I think it’s probably Roberts who said, you know, no, we can’t go that far you know, look what would happen And then he leaked it just to show you know what backlash was going to be just by leaking that. But you know they might have actually thought that there would sort of civil war would break out so they took kind of not as they didn’t go as far as they could i think with the Dobbs decision, it’s not that the Dobbs decision was bad i mean, I think that was a great victory for the pro-life movement. But you know, the fight’s not over. Not that Roe V Wade’s overturned.

Jacob Barr    13:06

Yeah, Speaking of the fight not being over and also Speaking of like, you know, one state next to another. So like Texas, you know, abortion is illegal, while New Mexico abortion is. Well, so legal that people travel there to have one done or you know, or California, for example, it’s very legal. So in some states it’s, yeah, been abolished or it’s banned, it’s illegal. And then the neighboring states are saying things like we’ll come here, travel here and have your abortion here. What are your thoughts about one state promoting, you know, drawing in citizens from a neighboring state in order to take advantage of liberal laws or, you know, abortion up to the point of birth, or abortion being legal while the state that they’re living in says it’s illegal and they, you know, they can’t. It can’t take place there surgically at least, or legally at least.

Alan Aversa    14:09

Yeah i know that. Yeah, that some states, I think they even make it. I think there are some states that even make it illegal just to leave the state to go to another state. Yeah, that that’s a tricky issue i mean that’s why there has to be something at the federal level, you know, settling this because that’s kind of the purpose of the federal government to deal with the commerce between the states, you know, like what’s happening between the states. But yeah, i know that and there certainly should be, you know, penalties against companies who support, you know, who pay for their employees to go to other States and meant to do that. So yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of people in the pro-life movement say, oh, you know, well, what is the goal of the pro-life movement that’s another interesting question it should be to make abortion illegal. A lot, and not all pro lifers say that they say, oh, you should just, you know, make it unthinkable or we should, you know, educate people about alternatives i mean, well, that’s a good thing i mean, I think that the goal is to make it illegal. No, just because like murder or theft, you know, there are laws against that, right people are always people will be breaking the laws no matter what i mean, people hold slaves even today, even though that’s illegal, right some people still break laws it’s but that’s not a good argument for there not being a law i think there needs to be a law that you know, that says we cannot do that, You cannot do that it’s homicide to kill an unborn innocent human being. That needs to be very clear. So yeah, I think in the pro-life movement people could, you know, a lot of people tend to shy away from the political aspect of it but I mean that’s important i mean I think that’s the ultimate goal is to make it illegal because the law, you know, the law teaches people, you know, if somebody thinks, oh, you know, it’s illegal to go steal my neighbor’s car, you know, that will deter him from doing that i mean most citizens are law abiding citizens and but you know, when we say it’s legal and that somebody might be wondering you know, should I do this or not, You know, boyfriend might be pressuring the girlfriend into this and you know, all these things, but if the law is there to help direct and guide them, you know that that’ll help a lot, you know, I think so the law, the law is very important the law needs to be changed. I mean it’s a good step that you know the states are, I know that this is up to the states now, but you know I think there will be a point where the federal government will have to come in and settle this.

Jacob Barr    17:04

So for 50 years you know the based on the Supreme Court ruling Roe versus Wade abortion was forced to be legal across the country. And now we have some states where it’s legal and some states where it’s not legal and we have women who you know let’s you know we have women who live in Texas and those women under Roe you know if they, you know having an abortion was legal meaning the moral compass of the law wasn’t saying don’t have an abortion there may have been other moral compasses that would have said don’t do it just because it’s legal doesn’t mean it’s good or right. But you know here now we have women who lived under Roe and they may have had an abortion and now with the law changing you know, where does that leave them when it comes to their moral compass being changed or when it comes to the, you know, measuring right and wrong or having to deal with, you know, now it’s considered murderer, now it’s considered killing, whereas before it was considered a woman’s right or, you know, different manipulative language. So what are your thoughts on, you know, a person having that, you know, that back story with the law changing and now having to grapple with their life story and having the pain and suffering of, yeah, being under Roe and now being under Dobbs. Does that make sense yeah.

Alan Aversa    18:44

That’s. Yeah, that does. Yeah i mean it’s something that we all have to kind of face, you know how as a country could have we considered it just yeah, like women’s rights. But now you know it’s not It was something completely opposite. It’s interesting i something I wanted to bring up i know you had those points that you wanted me to discuss was when I was five years old. My mom had an ectopic pregnancy so I would have had a sibling i’m an only child. I would have had a sibling, but you know, she had to have this operation that you know resulted in the death of the child. You know, I wouldn’t say she had an abortion. It wasn’t a direct intentional killing of the child i mean the doctor was trying to treat all the internal bleeding that she had and all these issues. And you know, it’s interesting that people I’ve met, people in the pro-life movement would say or in the in the in the pro abortion movement that say, oh, you know, oh, your mother got an abortion and I’m like, no, i wouldn’t call that an abortion. And but you know, I think the people that realize i had a friend, I think it was in the store or something or he was in a coffee shop and he was talking about this. And you know, he was just some lady at the other table just overheard him say something like, you know, abortion kills an innocent human being or. And the lady came up to him and then thanked him and said, you know, I want to thank you for, you know, for speaking the truth there you know, I had an abortion and you know, i knew that that’s what I was doing i was taking the life away from an innocent human being and you know it helped her to get over, you know, to face that reality and so she interesting, you know she’s thanked this pro lifer for speaking the truth about that. Also I’ve volunteered a lot with Center for Bioethical Reform and Justice for All and they use graphic images, you know, showing actual abortion. I mean these images were certified by abortions to be, you know, legitimate, valid pictures of, you know, what happens. And you know, there’s a division in the pro-life movement, I think, about the usage of graphic images. But for, you know, if it can save one life alone, that’s good and there is testimony. Women come back and say, you know, I didn’t like seeing that i didn’t like, you know, it was terrible to see but you know, I had an abortion scheduled that day and I decided not to do that because I saw that picture. You know, So, you know, we want to show what abortion is and the truth of what it is. Not because we want to scare people or because we like looking at those pictures, but because you know the reality behind those pictures is something that we have to face now the United States like, I mean this is actually how the slavery was abolished to the same thing people took pictures of the horrible treatment of the, you know, the scars that the slaves would get on their backs from being whipped and that really spurred the movement to abolition and so we’re doing the same thing in the in the pro-life movement, you know, helping people face, you know, what is aborted i mean I think a lot of women, they realize yeah, they that there was a there’s a life growing in them. But you know the abortion facilities and nurses, you know, they want to dehumanize it and say oh it’s just a product of conception or you know, it’s just a cell or it’s, you know, but you know we have all those statistics about the ultrasounds it’s something like at least three quarters I think of women who see, you know, the ultrasound of their baby will decide to continue with the pregnancy or especially or if they hear the heartbeat, you know, they’ll they realize, you know that there’s another life inside of me.

Jacob Barr    23:03

Yeah, I think a lot of that is when it comes to dispelling the false beliefs that have been used to manipulate women into thinking it’s not a child, it’s not a baby, it’s not a person, it’s something that might, you know, they equate to like a tooth being extracted, which is vastly different than a person. And I think that’s but that you know the opposition has made it into like, you know, into like a machine of lying or into a machine of pushing false beliefs.

Alan Aversa    23:37

And even very early on, I don’t know if you ever saw the Roe V Wade movie that came out in 2020 I think it was, it was a very good kind of portrayal of, you know, what will add up to Roe V Wade and one good point it made in that movie was that the back alley abortion statistics, those were just invented out of thin air i mean even I think it was Bernard Nathanson himself said that, yeah, we just came up with those statistics out of thin air. So yeah, it’s been a lot of lies covering up, especially all the great Embryology videos and photographs that have been taken, you know, the past century or so. There’s just so much more scientific evidence now that, you know, this is a human being i mean think about DNA wasn’t even discovered until the late or until the mid like nineteenth century or mid twentieth century and but now you know we have so much more evidence and a lot of that evidence was actually none of that evidence was brought into the Supreme the into the Roe V Wade case i think the most recent Embryology that they discussed when they went over the history of Embryology was something like, you know, middle age Embryology. But you know look at da Vinci, even da Vinci’s really good drawings of the unborn and then there was AI forget what the, I think it was Davenport Hooker was another you know he made these really good photographs of the unborn and there was also a physician to the Queen of England many years ago they did just amazing drawings like I mean they look like photographs these drawings that he did of the unborn and all that evidence was neglected at, you know in the Roe V Wade documentation so we have especially now with the 4D ultrasounds like it’s undeniable that you know this is a human being.

Jacob Barr    25:42

So with your position being, well, pro-life making you closer to the Republican candidate. Yeah so how does that work when it comes to, you know, not taking votes from the, you know, the person, you know, I guess you know, the friendly pro-life candidate and then trying to take votes from the one who is pro abortion. Is it, you know, essentially me it sounds like you’re talking about maybe trying to just encourage people to vote pro-life it seems like a lot of work to run if you don’t have the expectation of winning like I don’t quite understand how that plays out.

Alan Aversa    26:21

Yeah i mean, I have my biggest support base is the pro-life movement here. So, but yeah, so yeah.

Jacob Barr    26:32

When Ross, when Ross Perot ran, like he took votes from the Republican side, I think a lot more than the Democrat side and you know, as an independent, he ended up, I think pushing. Yeah, pulling from the Republican side more so than the Democrat side. So yeah go ahead and check. What are your thoughts on all of that?

Alan Aversa    26:53

Yeah, that’s it i mean I think we do need to make it so that it’s not just two parties i mean I think we need to give have some more options in Arizona here it’s actually some states are very easy to be independents and Arizona is not very easy to be an independent you have to have 3 % of you know you have to for signatures you need basically like three times as many signatures as a party candidate. And like if you were to run for a statewide position here in Arizona, you need something like 42,000 thousand signatures, which is it’s unbelievable some states to run as an independent, as a statewide candidate, you basically pay them a couple hundred dollars or you only need a couple hundred and signatures and so there’s a whole, yeah, there’s a whole variety, whole gamut of. You know, regarding independence and how friendly the states are to independent but yeah, Arizona’s not very friendly to independence, so.

Jacob Barr    27:52

Interesting. So what, what’s something that you would like to, yeah, for Prancy clinics here in Arizona or abroad? Well, something that you would like to say to the leadership or the executive directors that may be encouraging or helpful to know.

Alan Aversa    28:10

Yeah, I would say, you know, just keep doing what you’re doing, especially going out to the abortion facilities, being sidewalk counselors i know one here in Arizona i mean, she’s been, she’s just a real warrior she’s been out there since basically Roe V Wade, you know, all in a especially on Saturdays when there’s just, you know, tons of a very aggressive, you know, shoving the fires in their faces, talking to the boyfriends, telling the boyfriends, you know, don’t make your girlfriend go through this, you know, be a man, help her out. You know, we have pregnancy i’ll drive you myself to the pregnancy and that’s very effective i mean those sidewalk counselors so that that’s what I would say, I think to the leaders of the crisis pregnancy centers, get more sidewalk counselors out there because you know that’s how you know that’s how you’ll save more babies for sure so.

Jacob Barr    29:04

Yeah, that’s good. Based on your experience volunteering and working and doing pro-life work, you know, or being a pro-life candidate, where have you seen God’s fingerprints in this work or where have you seen answered prayer or something along those lines?

Alan Aversa    29:23

That’s interesting because i’ve never been directly involved with an abortion or really I don’t know any family members who had them at least they they’ve never told me they did. And so you know, why am I interested in this movement that’s kind of, I think God was now planting something in my conscience to tell me, you know, that you know, when I saw the statistics about, you know, what’s going on, I’m a real math and science person so I love data and statistics and when I saw that, I’m like, wow, this is unbelievable how common this is. And that’s kind of what spurred me into the movement God, just working in my conscience, I think just telling me, you know, you have to do something about this like, you know, so.

Jacob Barr    30:07

What do you. Yeah so let let’s say, you know you’re able to pull votes from the you know, the pro abortion Democrat and the pro-life Republican wins by a margin. You know maybe a tight margin here in Arizona. Where does that leave you? Like where does is your goal maybe to try and join that cabinet or that team, or where do you go after that like, what’s if what you’re trying to do is successful, what do you do next?

Alan Aversa    30:37

Yeah, I mean I’ve been involved with the Republican Party here in South, in South Mountain area. So yeah, that’s kind of what got me into the politics in this area. So yeah, so yeah, we’ll see. I mean i definitely want to help support in any of the amendments maybe to the Arizona Constitution you know personhood amendments. I think that’s what really should be pushed more there’s AI don’t know if you’ve heard of the Arizona what do they call it the abortion access amendment i mean they’re basically trying to put the supposed right to abortion in the Arizona constitution. They need something like 350,000 thousand signatures and I think they’re getting pretty close to that. But you know, what I’m seeing on the Republican side is mostly just, you know, don’t sign that, you know, don’t do but, you know, I think we need to do something, you know, positive to, like, you know, support the personhood amendment or things like that so yeah, so that’s the way I see it.

Jacob Barr    31:45

So when did you first hear about the personhood amendment, like what’s the back story with, you know, with you understand, you know, gaining understanding about that?

Alan Aversa    31:54

Yeah, it was actually somebody outside the abortion facility here in Phoenix that was. He’s very supporting that amendment and I thought, well, that’s an interesting idea and I looked at it, look, read more about the history of the fourteenth. Amendment and you know the fourteenth Amendment starts out by saying, you know all people born or naturalized and you know, so you think it’s only talking about born people but he was arguing, you know, that even unborn people are covered by the fourteenth Amendment and so I think that’s a really good goal because if, you know, if we recognize, if the law recognizes the unborn as. You know, citizens, as people deserving of rights, then, you know, I mean we have something like it’s in a statistic i read just today the National right to Life put an article together about all the states that, you know, when you have a mother, when you have a double homicide case of a mother pregnant lady being killed you know, whether the state also considers it, you know, 2-2 murders or one and something like at least 30 states in the United States would consider it two murders, which is interesting, you know, so there but there’s not a consistency like, you know, oh, so if the child’s unwanted, then you know, you can, you can take its life away. But you know, like if the mother is killed, then the state considers it a person there needs to be, you know, some consistency in the law regarding personhood so that’s where i first heard about that.

Jacob Barr    33:33

Yeah, that makes sense. What’s one of the numbers when you said you were looking at the data and you were shocked at how common abortion was and it really sort of pulled you into this work, What’s one of the numbers that really stood out to you that well that spoke to you like one of the stats?

Alan Aversa    33:52

Like the 1 2 million per year in the United States and then I think in Arizona it was something that came out to be like, I don’t know, 15.000 thousand or something and I thought, wow, that’s just, that’s a lot. Yeah, those are the numbers that really struck i mean, and that another thing I never understood is that, you know, most abortions occur in the first trimester very young and the cases are, you know, almost none. Almost none of those cases have to do with, you know, a medical sort of situation where the, you know, the mother has some condition that you know, the where the pregnancy’s making her condition a little bit more difficult like, yeah, almost. And then what is it the, yeah, the situations of rape and incest are in a very small fraction of all the all the abortions that occur. So it made me think like, well, you know, why are so many occurring but perfectly healthy mothers and, you know, and pretty good situations economically and everything why is this happening so yeah, that’s that was something that really opened my eyes, I think the statistics about that so what about?

Jacob Barr    35:12

Separation of church and state, you know, so the church not, you know, the state not saying you know this is the religion to choose like you know having separation there, while also you know saying that abortion is wrong because it’s it ends the life like how do you maintain separation from religion because I know for myself I look at abortion being wrong because it destroys an image bearer of God and so my religion is deeply weaved into my reasons why it’s wrong. But at the state level, I believe it’s because you know from biological reasons or you know, because of the reasons that it’s wrong to end the life of someone else or to infringe on the rights by ending their life of someone else. You know how do you draw the distinguishment of abortion being wrong without, while still maintaining separation of church and state?

Alan Aversa    36:03

Yeah i mean I think i mean I’ve actually known as some pro-life atheist too and yeah, a lot of the religions you know, orthodox Jews, even some Muslims and you know a lot of the different Christian denominations now they have an agreement about when this, you know, about abortion. But yeah, I mean i do get that sometimes people say, oh you’re just trying to impose your religious views on me by being against abortion but I think it’s built into our human nature that you know killing an innocent human being is wrong that’s something all people throughout all ages could understand. Even you know a tribe way out in the in Australia Aborigine tribe or something even they could understand know that murder is wrong you know killing an unborn innocent human being is wrong. So I think it can be argued you know, just from a natural law perspective, you know that law that’s written into our nature that and yeah and that’s another thing you know the law there is morality you can’t separate morality from the law i know a lot of people try to say that too all you’re trying to impose your morality on you know what the law is. But the purpose of law is, yeah, you can’t you can’t separate that. Now why do we have laws against murder or against theft or, you know, because it’s wrong to steal what belongs to somebody else it’s wrong to take the life away from somebody who’s not a convicted person or an innocent person being can’t now people understand like, oh, you know, an innocent person on death row, you know, that’s bad but what about an innocent person in the womb, you know that they haven’t committed any crime. You know, why should their life be taken away? So yeah, so that’s how I argue. I mean, it’s not that I’m like my religious views certainly agree with, you know, with the with this. But it’s not like I’m imposing it’s not like I think oh, and I’m just imposing my views and you can do and we live in this climate of kind of relativism like oh you know what’s OK for you to do might not be OK for me to do and but that’s not true i mean we all share the same human nature. It can all be shown, you know, for all of us it’s not, you know, committing adultery is wrong, killing is wrong stealing is, you know, for all of us that applies so.

Jacob Barr    38:48

Yeah, that’s really interesting yeah because on death row, yeah, there probably has been a, you know, a % of innocent people who were killed by based on being framed, it’d be, you know, probably a small percent, I hope. But when it comes to the unborn, not one child who was aborted had ever hurt anybody else like it wasn’t like that’s they didn’t have the they didn’t have the opportunity to do an infraction or to or to hurt someone else. And so every, you know, every child that was aborted was innocent and yeah and killed. And so though that’s interesting to think about it that way and really compare the, you know, the innocent level or the % of innocence of those who’ve been who’ve been aborted compared to those on death row, perhaps.

Alan Aversa    39:39

Yeah with an unborn, I mean, there are some people that try to argue that unborn in certain situations could be like an unjust aggressor. But, you know, they never, they don’t have the ability to choose to, you know, oh, I’m going to try to, you know, kill this person that’s what you know they don’t have that intention as an unborn innocent child so they can’t be convicted as being an unjust aggressor toward the mother or something.

Jacob Barr    40:07

Like, yeah so yeah, you know, So what are your thoughts about false beliefs like when it comes to, there seems to be a lot like a never ending level set of false beliefs that promote abortion as being good or trying to justify abortion or make it, you know, like, you know, for example, the false belief of my body, my choice, while a woman, you know, in reality doesn’t have more than 10 fingers and 10 toes. Yeah, I mean, I.

Alan Aversa    40:38

Agree with my body, my choice we have autonomy over our own bodies, right? Yeah, you know that. If you don’t believe that, then yeah, then.

Jacob Barr    40:47

How does she have more than? Yeah, when she’s pregnant, she’s got more than one body. You know, ’cause she has a body inside her body, which is not her body.

Alan Aversa    40:57

Yeah so when you know. Yeah when there’s another person involved and yeah the. And you know your rights, the mother’s rights can never trump the child’s rights, the doctors. And this is something you probably know about the Hippocratic Oath, how it was changed in the sixties i think it was.

Jacob Barr    41:15

I think as a result of Roe versus Wade, because it talked about not ending the life and yeah, and so it was changed as a result of Roe versus Wade being passed.

Alan Aversa    41:27

Yeah i mean the mentality should be, you know, we’re trying to save the child and the mother, you know, medical, our medical system, you know, purports to be so good and everything so I mean, but so it should be able to do that. I mean it’s not like we’re asking too much of the medical technology or doctors to be able to save both of their lives. But yeah, I say, you know, i agree with choice we have the ability to choose but one that infringes upon the rights of somebody else, well, you know, and that’s a different situation.

Jacob Barr    42:09

So what would be your encouragement for people across the country when it comes to, you know, voting pro-life or running themselves as a pro-life candidate, whether it be for the school board or for these different positions? Beyond that, what would be your encouragement to people yeah, when it comes to voting pro-life or running as a pro-life candidate?

Alan Aversa    42:36

Yeah, it’s interesting you mentioned school board i mean those people are really heroic what they’re doing, you know, trying to oppose all the like the critical race theory and transgender ideologies that are coming into the schools. So, yeah, I mean, I would say that’s very important yeah, attend those school board meetings. Make your voice known. Make sure that you know, the children are being taught, you know, real, you know, like embryonic development and that was actually in Tucson. I knew somebody that ran a crisis pregnancy center down there and he was trying to get just this very simple children’s book into the curriculum at the school there but they were very opposed to it because it, you know, it showed the Embryology and the and the development of the unborn, you know, it showed really the humanity of the unborn human being. And so yeah, I mean that’s where the fight really is i think in with education especially, you know, teaching the children and what does, I mean this could be done in science classes you know, teaching what the embryonic development looks like and it’s interesting you know the all these supposedly comprehensive sex Ed programs don’t discuss embryonic development at all. You know, they’re mostly about, you know, how to prevent disease and all these things. But yeah, so be in the, in those school board meetings, make sure that the schools are being open about, you know, what their curriculum is and that was actually a really good blessing from, you know, the whole COVID shutdown parents finally saw, you know, what was actually being taught in the classrooms. And you know it wasn’t what they thought was being taught. So yeah, that would be regarding education, yeah, I think that’s a very important aspect of the pro-life movement when it comes to political candidates for mayor or city or state, the local, the local candidates are actually more important. You know it’s interesting to say that cause and I’m running as a federal candidate, but that the school board, the state representative, your state senators, mayors, you know this is the local level is where you need to start. Start the fight and meet up with your, you know, your GOP groups or any other political groups in your area and you know, make friends with the people in your area and they’ll give you a lot of encouragement. And we have already some very good pro-life candidate i mean pro-life politicians currently in Arizona like Tom Horn, the Education secretary. He used to be many years, about a decade ago, I think he was the attorney general and he was very pro-life attorney general. And we have Kimberly Yee as the state treasurer, another very pro-life candidate she’s from Tucson. And yeah, meet up and make connections with these people and there’s a lot of good right to life groups in the Phoenix area and in Tucson or any or wherever else you may live. But yeah, make friends, make connections with the people in the movement deals, especially i mentioned no meeting people outside the abortion facility here well, that was a part of the 40 Days for Life movement. And they do a lot of really good work they have different locations where you have a schedule and you’ll be out there for an hour, you know, praying outside the abortion facility, just maybe holding a sign or you know, just your presence there is really good for deterring people. One time when I was out there, you know, I saw a girl with her friend drive in they saw our sign and they just did AU turn and I cried away so we’re like wow, we didn’t know they looked at a shock because they didn’t know, you know, really what they were getting into. And they’re just told, oh, it’s a kind of ecologist you can go here. But yeah, just your presence outside the abortion facilities too, 40 days for life if you’re, you know, really, you know, worried about, you know, what if I get arrested or what’s going to happen you know, there’s a lot of support with the different leaders and 40 Days for Life to help you with that so yeah.

Jacob Barr    47:06

Well, so Alan, what would be your encouragement for current political leadership when it comes to really understanding what is what is happening in the pro-life movement as well as what’s happening at an abortion clinic? Like what would you encourage, whether they, you know, regardless of their position, what would you encourage them to do or to understand when it comes to this issue?

Alan Aversa    47:36

Yeah, that’s, I mean read up, I think more about, you know, how it actually works, you know, and you know, a lot of people even on the, you know, the pro abortion side, a lot of them I don’t think, really know what an abortion is i mean, they say it’s a medical procedure. You know, I think they could be educated a little bit more about, you know, the statistics especially you know how most of the vast majority of them are not done for medical reasons. You know, especially that and even on the pro-life politician side, you know a lot of them aren’t really pro-life from you know, they’re just pro-life more because it’s something they have to say just to you know, they don’t really understand. I mean I think like if a pro-life candidate says you know, oh i’m pro-life except for rape incest and all that, they haven’t understand understood really why they need to be pro-life i mean, I think that, you know, the, so, yeah, So I think read more about it and there’s a lot of excellent books and videos And you know, the technology today, like I’ve said, is just amazing for showing the you know, the humanity of the unborn, yeah.

Jacob Barr    49:04

When it When it comes to someone who’s When it comes to someone who’s pro-life in 99 5 % or maybe 99 9 %, but they leave that rape and incest exception and saying i’m pro-life in all situations except rape and incest. What would you say to that group as a reason to consider life for those who are being created out of a hard situation like rape and incest or a terrible situation like rape and incest?

Alan Aversa    49:44

Yeah i mean it’s yeah, that is a terrible thing i mean it’s a violent act to be raped i mean that and that’s not something that. No. Like if I were a woman, Yeah that would be terrible to go through. And so we’re not condemning, you know, the woman because she happened to be raped. But you know, on the other hand, you know I think you’ve got this life that’s living in you. I think I, you know, what I would say is that there are women who have decide, you know cases of rape that have gone through the pregnancy and they don’t regret it for one bit that they that they did have that child and keep that child. And on the other hand you know women who have abortions are you know, much more likely to commit suicide have you know psychological effects of it you know, like post traumatic stress syndrome sort of effects and so, you know, I wouldn’t want to compound the terrible suffering that they went through from being raped with, you know, even more, you know, side effects of going through an abortion yeah. So yeah. And then of course the child has no say in who his parents are. And like so the child’s again completely innocent in that situation too, so.

Jacob Barr    51:10

Yeah i would say yeah for the woman who’s gone through a terrible situation. You know getting you know having an opportunity for counseling for healing for help and going through with that pregnancy is part of that journey towards not having yeah. Compound trauma or trauma times 2 but rather you know dealing with the really, you know the trauma of the heart situation the terrible situation and one of one of the gentleman who’s a pro-life speaker, his name is Steven Thinn which is a very unique name is his first name and he his mom was his was raped and you know his life. You know who he is his story to me is like a symbol for saying that you know people that come out of these very difficult beginnings have incredible value not just yeah their yeah. Their lives are just as important as anyone else’s life. Yeah and it’s hard. It’s hard.

Alan Aversa    52:19

People with Down syndrome too i had a classmate when I was a fourth grader that I pretty good. I mean so I and he was a he was just a joy i mean i really liked him. But yeah, that’s another tragedy now that you know what the they’re able to do that test before for Down syndrome now there’s not as many Down syndrome people because, yeah, there.

Jacob Barr    52:44

Yeah what are your thoughts on that when it comes to like?

Alan Aversa    52:47

To say that you know who is it to? Who am I to say that my Down syndrome friend, you know, had a terrible life, you know he shouldn’t have existed or i don’t think that at all so.

Jacob Barr    53:00

Yeah, it seems to me like it’s mostly based on, you know, someone being an inconvenience to the person making the decision, more so than it really being for the benefit of the person who’s being aborted. It’s not like people are not being aborted because it’s for their benefit it seems like it’s more likely it’s the benefit of the person making the decision. So if someone has Down syndrome, I feel like people are looking at them as being a problem for someone else where whereas in reality their life is just as valuable as my life or your life and so legally like to me that feels like that’s you know, that’s treating them as a people group that’s being well destroyed. So you know, what are your thoughts on that from like a political or a government level, you know, having certain people exterminated because of the hardship they may have on someone else. You know what? What does that look like from? That’s against.

Alan Aversa    54:09

That’s against the Constitution it’s against the fourteenth amendment, so you know, it’s already unconstitutional to exclude or, you know, try to get rid of certain groups of people. So I mean, I think that’s what we need to focus it back on you know, we’re excluding the unborn we’re excluding well in Arizona here we, you know, we have laws against that, which is good some states do have laws against sex selective abortion or you know like disability selected abortion, which is good. I mean I think that’s a good step. But you know we need to again have that sort of personhood amendment to you know say that these people even before they’re born, you know they have a right not to be excluded as a, you know as a separate class of people or so up in somebody told me, I don’t I don’t know if it was up in the Phoenix area or where it was but there’s this cafe that’s run entirely by Down syndrome people and people like it i mean it’s they do this really neat cafe so it’s not like I mean they have value to society for sure so yeah.

Jacob Barr    55:27

Well, so Alan, as part of this these podcasts I often will ask the guest to wrap up the podcast with a prayer. Would you feel comfortable doing that in this podcast?

Alan Aversa    55:40

Sure, yeah.

Jacob Barr    55:41

Ok. And maybe you just include yeah something that. Yeah, I would, I would ask you to pray for something that reflects your desire for pro-life candidates to be elected and for pro-life laws to be passed and to be enforced, especially for those who are yeah for pro-life laws that are on the books, protecting those with Down syndrome, protecting those who are deemed less, you know, less than desirable. I think those, yeah, anyone, everyone needs protection and including those who are being attacked.

Alan Aversa    56:14

Yeah. All right let’s pray in the name of the Father and of the Son, the Holy spirit amen. Oh Lord, you are the God of life you are the living God. Change the hearts of all those who are seeking to, you know, to get rid of any inconvenience they might think they have and whether that be in their own child or a relative or you know this we didn’t mention them. But even the elderly too have value. It’s not just the unborn that the pro-life movement should think about change the hearts especially of the abortionists. I think they have been really deceived into thinking that they are helping the women and know that they can they can convert to we’ve seen many conversions of them and Lord, you are all powerful really it’s going to be up to your will to end this Holocaust of the unborn that we’ve been living through. You know we’re just your instruments but you know you could you could change this with just a snap of your finger. I mean you’re the all powerful God and help us to thank you for life that it’s the greatest gift you know without life we wouldn’t have any other rights and to change our minds and hearts regarding children and help us to promote this culture of life that we can become a nation again. No nation comes from the word Nazio, which means birth, you know, so that we can have some more generations to build up our country and make it a great country. Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day Our Daily Bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil amen in the name of the Father and of the Son, the Holy spirit amen.