Jenny Fleming’s transition from pro-choice to pro-life, driven by her personal struggles and faith journey, highlights the deep impact of abortion decisions and the healing power of support and faith.
Summary
This is Jacob Barr, and I just had a moving conversation with Jenny Fleming on the pro-life Team Podcast. Jenny shared her story of transitioning from pro-choice to pro-life, influenced by her personal experiences. She opened up about her past, including an abusive relationship and the difficult decision to have an abortion at a young age. Jenny reflected on how this choice, made under pressure and fear of judgment, impacted her life for years, leading to emotional struggles and health issues. Her journey to healing began with her faith in Jesus Christ, which helped her find peace and forgiveness. Now, Jenny is actively involved in supporting others, particularly at pregnancy centers, advocating for life-affirming choices and offering hope to those facing similar challenges. Her story is a testament to the transformative power of faith and the importance of compassionate support in times of crisis.
#Hashtags: #JennysStory, #ProLifeTransformation, #FaithAndHealing, #AbortionRecovery, #CompassionateSupport, #PersonalStruggles, #LifeAffirmingChoices, #PregnancyCenterAdvocacy, #HealingThroughFaith, #ProChoiceToProLife
Transcript
The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.
Jenny Fleming :
Welcome to the pro-life Team Podcast. I’m Jen. I’m here with Jacob. And today we’re going to talk about my journey from pro-choice to pro-life.
Jacob Barr :
Go ahead and start us off, Jen, and go ahead and Share your story start where you think would be a good starting point, and yeah, bring us through the story.
Jenny Fleming :
I’ll kind of go back to the beginning. So my story started with my abortion and that came about. I had been with my boyfriend for about 3 years i met him when I was 16 and so found out I was pregnant when I was 19 and unfortunately he was very abusive. He we were in college at the time and I should have gotten out of that relationship a long time before but i just couldn’t You know how sometimes abusive relationships can be. You just kind of get caught in that and manipulated and just for whatever reason you just don’t leave and so I didn’t. So when I found out I was pregnant he was very angry about that and in my family dynamics I was the oldest child and I was always expected to be the perfect one. I had always gotten straight A’s in school. I had always felt like I had to do everything perfectly. And when I found out I was pregnant, I knew that was going to be a major issue, especially for my mother. You know, it would make her very upset and it would cause, you know, in her mind, a scandal. You know, this was the late eighties and you know, things were different than they are now. It was more of a big deal if you became pregnant out of wedlock than it is now. And so I didn’t want to disappoint my family. I didn’t want to shame myself basically. And I there were just a lot of reasons i didn’t want a child to affect my future and i really didn’t want a child to have to deal with an abusive father. So for a lot of different reasons and because he was so angry and he basically said get rid of it, I’ll never forget those words, I made the unfortunate choice to have an abortion, which he fully supported. So yeah, so I just had no way to go. That I felt was a was a good choice for me because I knew at that point I was no longer going to be the perfect girl. If I carried on with the pregnancy, I couldn’t be perfect because everyone would know. I would be pregnant. Everyone would know you’re not the perfect girl anymore. But if I had the abortion, other people wouldn’t know, but I would know. So I would no longer be the perfect girl. So you know, that event basically shattered me. It was like if you have a glass and it breaks and you try to put it back together and you use like Elmer’s glue instead of an epoxy or super glue or whatever you’re supposed to use to put glass back together. And then you keep trying to put water in the glass or if you have a vase and you’re trying to put flowers and rocks and water in the glass, you know, it might hold up for a little bit. But eventually that’s not going to work. And that became my life after many years. So as far as the abortion experience itself, you know, i don’t remember it too much at all. The day that had happened, he drove me there were no, there was no counseling. I called and made the appointment. I went there. I signed some papers, but nobody counseled me, Nobody offered an ultrasound. You know, there was nothing, nothing to try to give me options there was nothing at all. So I remember that the nurse gave me a shot in my hip and I said, oh, that’s going to be the worst part of it and she knowingly said, oh, no it’s not. So she, you know, this nurse knew how bad it was going to be. But I don’t remember anything at all about the experience after that. I do remember coming home not to my home at that point he had his own place where he was living. So I went and stayed with him for several days and all I remember about that is just bleeding for several days afterwards. And I, you know, I just, I smelled that for weeks after that. And you know, I don’t know if that was a delusion or a hallucination, but even to this day that is a smell that I’m super sensitive to. And I think it all goes back to that experience. So, you know, i see the studies that different organizations put out that support pro-choice that say that, you know, abortion doesn’t harm the woman in the long run. And I have to say that from my personal experience, that’s not true there are a lot of effects that come about from that. But so i will say though, that right after I felt relief because it was over and I thought that I could just go on with my life and I thought that I would be free, but I thought I was escaping. But really, I wasn’t escaping anything because I was just getting deeper and deeper into the entrapment, the enslavement. Because this abusive boyfriend used the abortion as a manipulative tool against me. So he would threaten to tell my parents. He threatened to tell my grandmother, who I was very close to. He did make me tell his mother what I had done. So it just it just put me deeper into a bad situation. It didn’t really help anything immediately so just added more burdens on to the situation. So eventually I was able to break free from that relationship and about two years later I met my current husband and he is wonderful, but I didn’t want to get pregnant right away and I told him we’re going to wait five years because I think I was scared. I just, you know, after the experience, i just didn’t. I didn’t know if I wanted to have children. So we did we waited five years, and it was almost five years from the time that we got married that I did finally get pregnant and I miscarried almost four months into it. So having had an abortion and then having a miscarriage there are very similar but very different. Of course both are the loss of a child, but both are heartbreaking. But the abortion is probably worse in the long run. The difference between the two was that with the abortion, I suppressed that. So I didn’t think about that for the seven years that had elapsed. I just tried not to think about it at all in my day-to-day life. It didn’t come up. And when I would hear people talk about abortion, you know, of course I knew what I had done. But I just didn’t think about it. So, but with a miscarriage, you know, that’s something that that’s more acceptable. And so that’s something that you can breathe and it just seems like in society there’s no place to grieve for an aborted child. And so that’s hard, That’s a hard thing to deal with. And I think that’s changing now. But back then there wasn’t anything like that, at least not that I was aware of. So yeah, I just, I was suppressing that, suppressing that. But luckily so shortly after that miscarriage I did get pregnant again and was able to give birth to my daughter who is now 26 and so but unfortunately she was the only child that we were able to have because there were several miscarriages then later and I have to go back and I, you know I question was this all a result of that abortion? Did it was there some lingering effects from that I was not able to easily get pregnant and carry the pregnancies to term. So but even right after the abortion I said i just kind of i suppressed a lot of things. But that doesn’t mean that I wasn’t affected by it. I, over the next 28 years, really was an emotional wreck from all of that. I got into alcohol right after before I met my husband so in that two years, a little bit of drug use, very mild, but depression, anxiety, anger, rage, self esteem issues and control issues really dominated my life for 28 years after the abortion. And I’m sure I was very difficult to deal with by everybody, by my family members, by my Co workers. I’m sure I was very difficult and looking back on that, you know, I think a lot of that just had to do with I was just, as I said, shattered. And I’m just trying to hold everything together but suppressing it all. And that’s how it was all coming out, all coming out. And during that time period, there was 10 years where I had something that was wrong with me that doctors couldn’t figure out, couldn’t breathe almost every day for 10 years. And it was miserable. And we finally ended up figuring out that part of it was anxiety, but also part of it was a food allergy. So once that got under control, that actually is part of my testimony, which is why I bring that up. But you know, so it was, it was just a very difficult time during this 28 year period. But finally one day came and I’ll never forget it. I was just getting ready for work like any other day. I was doing my hair and that was the day that the glue could not hold that glass together anymore and it just shattered. I came to the end of myself and the glass, the water, the rocks, whatever was in that vase just blew everywhere and it was not a pretty sight at all. And that was when things really fell apart. So if I was unbearable and hard to deal with before over the next two years, it was even worse. Because at this point I finally started to think about, oh, you would have had a child that would be 28 years old right now. What would life be like if you had that child with you now? And I couldn’t stop thinking about that. So that was a very difficult time to deal with. And so, thankfully, that was when Jesus Christ stepped in and rescued me. Because if he had, I don’t know that I would be sitting here talking to you because i just don’t think I could have gone on in that state of mind much longer.
Jacob Barr :
Wow, thank you so much for sharing your story. I’ve got a couple of questions. What emotions do you as you look back on your story what emotions did you experience with the abusive boyfriend pushing you towards getting an abortion? What emotions did you have at that time?
Jenny Fleming :
Well, I, you know, it was very upsetting at that time, but I also, I also kind of agreed that was probably the best thing at that time. I thought that was the case. You know, I was 19 years old in college. There were girls that were having abortions all the time. You know, there were girls that had two or three abortions by that time that I knew of it didn’t seem to be a big thing. And so I just thought it was going to be the best thing for me and my future and my family. And so even though I knew it was wrong, I just thought it was going to be the best thing in the end. And you know, I was then, I was in college, I was more liberal, You know, I was on the pro-choice side. So it wasn’t. It wasn’t as hard of a thing for me to do then as it would be, say, today.
Jacob Barr :
And you said you got when did you meet Jesus for the first time or when did your relationship with Jesus begin?
Jenny Fleming :
That was just seven, 7 and a half. Years ago yeah, I What was it like in a Christian home?
Jacob Barr :
What was it like dealing with dealing with that your abortion story before meeting Jesus, and what was it like after?
Jenny Fleming :
Oh, night and day. Totally night and day. I, like I said, you know, i didn’t know Jesus before. And so, you know, it’s easy when you’re part of the secular world to believe the lies that you’re told regarding abortion. You know it. It’s just a clump of cells. It’s not really a baby. It’s OK. It’s better, you know, for your life. You couldn’t provide enough for that baby so it, you know, it’s OK that you did this, you know so if you don’t know God, it’s easier to do those things. But once you do know Jesus Christ, and once you become aware of his love and His grace and His mercy, then you definitely, I feel you can’t advocate for the taking of an innocent life any longer. So it’s just it’s just a total, total difference between now and then. And I think if I would have been a Christian, then I would have made a different choice. But I can’t judge anybody who is a Christian that has an abortion because there are many that do. So I don’t, I don’t know how to, you know, answer for anyone else, but I just know for myself. But that’s I would have made a different choice.
Jacob Barr :
When it comes to your identity, how do you see yourself today or how do you like when it comes to who you are and how you hold your identity? You know, maybe when it comes to your past or your present, yeah, where are you at today when it comes to who you are?
Jenny Fleming :
Well, I’m a child of God. I’m a daughter of the King. I feel that I’ve been forgiven for my past transgressions and I am free from my past and I am free to move forward and to hopefully to help others to do the same. So i just feel that I am on a path to redemption i mean, I feel like I’m well on the path to redemption and that I am. I’m good.
Jacob Barr :
That’s good. That’s good. Which Bible passage has have you connected with along this along this journey?
Jenny Fleming :
Oh, let’s see.
Jacob Barr :
Or which verse really seems to speak into what you’ve needed at times along this journey, maybe? Or is there like a character in the Bible that seems to have gone through something that provided you with a lot of, yeah, insight or help?
Jenny Fleming :
Well, I guess I like Romans eight twenty eight. And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called to His purpose. Because, you know, that speaks to me that what Satan means to harm us, God can use for our good and for his glory. So, you know, I believe that Satan uses abortion to harm us and but God can take that and he can use it for his glory. You know, for instance, he can use me, just little old me, to tell my story and hopefully, you know, there’s some other woman out there who is struggling with the same issues that I’ve struggled with. And she can take hope from knowing that there’s a way out, that you don’t have to struggle through this, that there is hope and there is a way. Jesus is the way of the truth and the life, and he can redeem and restore. And so I just, I like that verse. I really like. I don’t like the story of David and Bathsheba and how their child died, but I do like that David realized that once that the child died, that the child was going to heaven and that he would see the child in heaven. Because that again, that is in the Bible, that when a child dies, the child goes to heaven and that gives me hope that I will see my child in heaven. So I do like that as well.
Jacob Barr :
So speaking about how like you’re essentially based on the journey you’ve been on, how is God choosing you today or how have you been prepared to help others that’s unique based on the pain and you know this hard journey that you’ve had to walk down.
Jenny Fleming :
Well, so, well, if I could tell my testimony because it’s pretty cool the way that. And then I’ll share that story as well. So I talked about how I had this breathing problem for 10 years. And so when we figured out it was a food allergy, I could kind of work on my diet so that I wouldn’t have the problem as often. But there was one well back up a little bit. So I had an aunt who was cognitively disabled from birth and but she loved to go to church and she was in an assisted living home and she was getting near the end of her life. And so I thought, well, maybe she would like to start going to church. And this was before I had even thought really about becoming a Christian. But it was in the time of my two years here where I’m just a real mess and I don’t even know what made me think about taking her to church just something said, hey, she would probably like to start going to church. So I was, I took her to church and in so doing that is what started me going to church. And so after she got to where she didn’t go any longer, I kept going. And so there was a night. And well, by this time I had decided that I was going to be baptized when I turned 50 and so, which was coming up in like 6 months or so. And there was one night, and I just had so much problems breathing and that I almost went to the hospital, which I had never done before, but I just prayed and prayed to Jesus, and I listened to music. And so I started feeling better. So I got up and I went to work the next day. I work an hour away. So I was listening to music on my way to work. And I’ve always felt that God speaks to me through music. So as I’m driving to work, every song that came up on the radio had something to do with breath, breathe. It was either in the lyrics, in the song title, something. And so I just had to laugh and I said OK, if you play the song. I got saved by Selah by the time I get to work, and by this time I was about 20 minutes from work. I will call and schedule my baptism. Today I was 10 minutes away from work and that song came on the radio. So I called and scheduled my baptism that day. So and then when I went to meet with the pastor about my baptism for the counselling, I talked to him for about 10 minutes and he immediately recognized now remember when I said that one of the reasons why I had the why I had the abortion was because, you know, I always felt that I had to be the perfect girl and you know that was a problem for me. And perfectionism had always been a problem for me if I couldn’t do things perfectly, then, you know, I felt like I was losing control or I just wouldn’t do it. He recognized right away with talking with me he said, you have a problem with perfectionism, don’t you? I said yes he said you need to get rid of that right now. You can’t keep up doing this. So, you know, that was one of the best pieces of advice that I got right off the bat. So I’ve really worked on letting that go. So I’m sure that everybody who knows me is very happy that I’ve kind of backed off of that. But so yes, i was baptized in June of 2017 And so since then, right away I volunteered as the pregnancy center here in our town. And it’s a it’s a little bigger town. There’s quite the poor population here and it is a lot of crisis pregnancy at that particular pregnancy center. And so while I was there, I had to counsel a young minor girl who was pregnant and she had, the father was older and so they were going to have to call the police. And so it became quite the issue when I applied as a volunteer, you know, on the application they asked if you’d ever had an abortion. And of course I answered truthfully on my application and the volunteer coordinator, you know, knew about it and we had discussed it. But that’s really all the further it went. But because of my interaction with this girl and then the police would be involved in that, the director of the center looked over my application because she wanted to know who was going to be involved in this situation potentially. So she noticed that i had an abortion and so she called me in and asked me if I had any counselling related to that which I had not at the point at that point. And so she asked if I would like to go through the forgiven and set free Bible study. So she set me up with a mentor and we went through that study together and that’s really helped me on my path as well. So after shortly after that, I did not get a chance to return to that pregnancy Resource Center because COVID hit and I was only able to volunteer one particular night and they were not having their volunteers come in on that night. So in the meantime, I had switched churches. I’m going to church in another county and so then one of the people at my new church asked if I would consider volunteering at the pregnancy Resource Center in the other county. Well, that county as my pastor calls it, is Cornfield County. So it’s more of a rural county and the pregnancy center there is more of like a pregnancy and life center. So it’s much less of a crisis pregnancy center and more of a life and family center and so I volunteered there now and we do a lot of family, not family counseling, but family classes. They do a lot of outreach as far as, you know, helping families with providing necessities for the babies and for the children. It’s just a really great environment. But we are trying to get the forgiveness set free program going there for women who need abortion recovery help. And we’ve offered the class twice. And so far we haven’t had anyone who have signed up for that yet. But we’re praying that someone will come along. You know, it’s hard in a small community because you know, it is shameful and you a lot of times don’t want to admit that you’ve had an abortion you don’t want people to know that. And so I think that might be part of our issue why we haven’t been able to get anybody to come to the study yet. But we’re praying that somebody will come eventually. We’re there, waiting.
Jacob Barr :
So as someone who has shared their story and has experienced well probably experienced the stronghold that shame can have and also you know the opposite of you know, having that broken, who would you speak to? You know what would you like what would you like for people to know The Who currently are letting shame still have that stronghold in their lives what would you like them to know?
Jenny Fleming :
Yeah, well, you know, if people are struggling, I just want them to know. But they need to take heart because there is peace in Jesus Christ. He can rescue you from the guilt, the shame and the despair. There is hope there’s freedom there’s forgiveness in Christ. And as John fourteen six says, he is truly the way, the truth and the life. And if you’re not struggling, if you’ve had an abortion in the past? And you’re not struggling now. I hate to say it, but you probably will in the future. Just give it time. Because it was as I said, you know, i did OK i thought for a long time, 28 years, I thought I did OK, but I really wasn’t looking back on it i wasn’t doing OK at all. But it just it wears on you. And you know, the studies are out there that say, oh, you know, women do fine after five years they don’t have any regrets and everything’s good well, yeah, maybe after five years, but go ask them after 10 or 20 or 30 and see, because I think eventually it all comes back. That’s what I would like for women to know. And if there’s anyone out there that is contemplating abortion, I mean I would just advise just don’t even go there, you know, just don’t even. It’s not really worth it in the end. I have come such a long ways on the path of recovery from that experience, but there are still things I just this year, and I think it’s just because God in his infinite mercy is just being so patient with me and revealing things to me when I’m ready and not giving me things that i can’t handle. But I’ve never really thought about holidays before. But this year, holidays have really come to my mind. You know, I’ve thought, oh, what would the holidays be like with grandchildren? Because by now I would probably have grandchildren and I don’t. And so, you know, I see my friends and people that I know that have grandchildren now and I don’t. And so, you know, that’s starting to hit me now, you know, 36 years later. So it even though I have come a long way, things still keep coming up over time. So, and if someone is count contemplating abortion, I would recommend that you go to a pregnancy Resource Center before you make that decision and learn about all your options. At least have an ultrasound and see that baby. You know, I didn’t have that option. I didn’t have any counseling i didn’t see an ultrasound. Maybe if I did, things would have been different, but I didn’t. And the other thing I would say is to consider adoption. One of the women that I have done classes with at the pregnancy center that I’m at now, she already has a child. She’s single and she’s pregnant again. And she has made the choice to give her child up for adoption. And I just think she’s the bravest woman in the world. I mean, she could have made the easy choice, but she has chosen to carry this child to term and to give the child up for adoption and I just think that is just so noble and so brave. And I just admire her so much for making that choice. And you know, adoption today is a lot different than it used to be you know, there’s open adoptions and there’s so many choices. And so, you know, if there’s anybody out there who’s listening to this and is thinking about adoption or about abortion, just please, there are so many other options available, Please look into those things.
Jacob Barr :
Wow, Jen, I really appreciate you. Yeah, you sharing your heart and your story. What are your final words as we wrap up or final thoughts as we wrap up this podcast?
Jenny Fleming :
Well, there is one other thing that I did want to say. Having been on both sides of the pro-choice and the pro-life I guess I would want for Christians to remember that non Christians, they don’t really hear or know or understand God like we do. They’re separated from God they’re alienated from God because they’ve chosen that or they have chosen not to accept God at least at that point in their life. So they are in some cases foolish and disobedient and deceived by the enemy. And so, you know, abortion is so liberalized in our society and so accepted that, you know, a lot of times people that are pro-choice they’re just uninformed and uncounseled. They readily give in to the abortion and they don’t even think much about the consequences. I know, I think they think, well it’s legal, so how can it be bad? They hear that it’s supported by their favorite celebrities and politicians. So they think, well, how can it be bad? They hear about the studies that are put out by the media, which is usually one sided, showing that it’s not harmful. And so they think, well, how can it be bad? So I think as Christians we need to be the light and we need to show love and compassion and grace and mercy to them. And we just need to speak truth though, because true love speaks truth. And so to love those people, we need to tell them the truth. But we also have to realize that, you know, they are living in the secular world and they will do things based on that.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, that’s a good longing to the desire for them to hear the truth and for them to ultimately connect with the truth. So Jim, would you close out our podcast with a prayer with the expectation that those who are listening may join you in this calling out to God and yeah, that may join you in this prayer.
Jenny Fleming :
Yeah. Lord, thank you so much for our time together today. Thank you so much for Jacob and for his podcast and for this platform. And we really look forward to the ways that you will surprise and amaze us with your faithfulness, the lives that you will touch of those listening to this podcast, the people that were you will use to brighten dark spaces and to lift sad hearts. Our discussion today was fueled by you, Father, and who created us to be a light to this world, to color the dark darkness and to bring life to death places and loved lost faces. Please bless our work and our time. Please guide our steps and our progress, and we pray that those that need to hear the truth will hear it. And in the mighty name of Jesus, Amen.