The ProLife Team Podcast 110 | Becky & Jacob | Compassion, Faith, and Gender Identity

The ProLife Team Podcast
The ProLife Team Podcast 110 | Becky & Jacob | Compassion, Faith, and Gender Identity
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Jacob discusses with Becky how to compassionately help people with gender identity issues while adhering to biblical values.

Summary

This is Jacob, and I had an important talk with Becky, who is in charge of a center that helps pregnant women. We talked about a tough topic: helping people who feel they are in a body that doesn’t match their gender. This is a big challenge. We want to help these people with kindness and also stay true to what the Bible teaches. We discussed how we can be caring and still follow our faith. Becky and I also talked about training our staff to handle these situations well. We want to make sure we use respectful words and show understanding. It’s also really important to include God’s teachings in our help. This conversation was about finding the right balance between being compassionate and following our faith.

Hashtags:
#CompassionateCare, #GenderIdentitySupport, #FaithBasedHelp, #RespectfulCommunication, #StaffTraining, #ProLifePodcast, #BiblicalValues, #UnderstandingDifferences, #CaringApproach, #BalancingFaithAndCare

Transcript

The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.

Becky :

Welcome to the pro-life Team Podcast i’m Becky i’m here with Jacob and we are talking about serving clients who are transgender, who present as one gender and biology is another and so we’re just looking at how to serve them well.

Jacob Barr :

So Becky, I’m excited to have you on the pro-life Team Podcast and we, yeah. And so we met at the Alliance for Life conference in Missouri or Kansas City, missouri. Just I guess it was a couple weeks ago. And would you introduce yourself as if you were talking to a group of pregnancy clinic executive directors?

Becky :

All right so my name is Becky and I am the executive director of a pregnancy Resource Center in rural Missouri. So we serve a wide range of counties and you all are very familiar with the same sort of programs and services that we offer and many of the same clients and client needs and so we just do our best to serve whoever comes in and show them love and care from the get go, and do our best to provide stability so that families can choose life and be better off after coming to our center than they were before.

Jacob Barr :

Awesome yeah thank you for what you’re doing and that important work. Would you share this story that really sparked the desire to do this podcast?

Becky :

Sure so we see all kinds of clients who come in and feel like we’ve trained our staff very well just to be courteous and kind no matter who comes in and so we were doing what we normally do in greeting the guest that came in and so this couple came to the center wanting to have a pregnancy test. And so our receptionist scheduler met them and was providing the intake forms at that time we were using paper forms and so she handed the forms to the woman and they said no this is for the other person of the couple who we had on our end identified as dad, but was in fact a woman who was pregnant and needing a pregnancy test. So that was just new to us i mean, we know that people are transitioning with hormones and just even with just clothing and dress and haircuts and things like that. So we weren’t totally shocked that had happened, but we had not been prepared for the couple to come in and to serve them in that day. So obviously we’ve done a lot of training since then on how to handle situations like that so that we’re more prepared and ready to serve with the needs that they have.

Jacob Barr :

Wow yeah and so a couple of questions one is, I think we met when we met in person, you had mentioned that the woman who looked like a man and the man looked like a woman, like and for example, I think you might have mentioned that the woman who looked like a man even had like chest hair is that part of your recollection or?

Becky :

Right, so we would never have guessed that the person needing the pregnancy test was a woman. And always they appeared. This person appeared to be a man. Chest, hair, voice, all appearances appeared to be a man now the person who we thought was the woman actually was in fact a woman so this is the same sex couple one person was presenting as a man and then the other was female. So we did provide pregnancy test and ultrasound that day. And so our nurse just as a group, we were wondering the right way to provide services without without coming across as we were condoning or supporting the confusion. And so that’s that is an issue that we are facing in our current cultural climate and how do we speak truth in love but also serve those clients where they’re at and try to build future relationships. So that was the question that we were faced with after that day.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah and so you mentioned before that you had you worked on getting some training. What was the source or how did that training go was it helpful and who provided it?

Becky :

So it was mostly just looking up all kinds of things online and trying to find out just any kind of help that we can have there wasn’t any specific source of training i listened to a lot of testimonies from people who had been, had been trans and had transitioned out and the their process for that and reasons for that and it was never ever because they were told what they were doing was wrong. That was never any of their testimonies it was always they said that they fell in love with God, and then as they spent time in His word, that’s when they began to be convinced that God had a different path for them and that he created them on purpose. A lot of times there were testimonies of abuse as a child, and so then that transition was a response to abuse that they had endured. Right now we’re in such a cultural it’s just a popularity issue so it may not be the result of specific classic abuse that there’s transition. It could be just the pressure of the culture to find that community that people maybe are missing so there’s kind of two waves of people who have been abused or popularity or true truly some mental dissonance. And so we don’t know for sure the background that led somebody to that decision and so their primary purpose when they come into the pregnancy center is that pregnancy test ultrasound or sexual health related question. So as we looked at just our training as pregnancy Resource Center staff and what our primary role is, it is there to provide safety and security for the child. And then so that had to be our first focus. So when addressing or maybe jumping ahead from what you’re asking because it really wasn’t a there really wasn’t a training for us on how do we handle this because the medical training because we have an RDMS on staff who had just done her training for hospital on how do you handle patients as far as pronouns and that’s something that we’ve worked through also with our staff and what our policy is on that. But the secular world has one set of standards and as we are obviously faith-based So what are our method of handling it in truth and love and that’s always a foundation that we need to start with. But it’s circled back around to their primary purpose for being there was pregnancy and we want to make sure that the life is chosen and then that baby is going to be healthy and so that’s our first round of service is how do we make sure that this baby has a healthy pregnancy as well as the mom. So that doesn’t really answer where we what training we had and we landed, but that’s the start of it. Well, the questions happened.

Jacob Barr :

No it definitely yeah no that was helpful and what I’m what I’m what I’m processing in the back of my mind is you know I’d like to put in a call to action at this moment for bright training and for heartbeat and for care net to consider providing training and materials and workshops on this scenario so that other people will have vetted helpful materials to work from so that they can essentially be prepared before the event happened. And obviously someone has to go through it before, you know, has to have the event and then has to look for training afterwards and going to Google and going to, you know, essentially not having necessarily vetted materials to try and sort through is part of that initial research and trying to well, and really this identifies a need for Princeton clinics understand when the woman appears as a man, how does that change or what is the same and what is different. So like in some cases some techniques and messaging will be the same, but at the same time some techniques and messaging and some questions will be different. And I’m not an expert in any of that, but I just know that there’s a need at least I can at least see that, but I’m not the one to answer all those questions.

Becky :

Right and one of the major differences in care that we our nurse realized is due to the hormones that had been that the this the client had been on for so long that automatically placed them in a high risk category during pregnancy for just the health of the baby and ensuring that their hormone levels were what the baby was going to need to thrive during pregnancy and so we knew going in we were going to have to connect this person with a high risk doctor for care.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, I’ve actually heard that if a woman starts the hormone blocks at a young age or you know, be before a certain point that she will actually become infertile because she will, you know, her eggs won’t develop. And then and then or if a woman, you know later in life does the hormone blocks and cross sex hormone ads. I’ve heard that well, essentially if they stop their body will start to rebalance, you know, because their body only makes the hormones that their body was designed to make and it’s not going to make the cross sex hormones. And so all that to say is if someone’s currently blocking and adding cross sex hormones, you’re right, Their body would not be prepared for what it needs to have to you know to, you know, for you know, for that pregnancy and so that definitely is a high like that just makes logical sense even outside of, you know, I don’t have medical training, but just as like understanding what’s needed from my limited viewpoint that does make a lot of sense. I’m wondering if right training heartbeat care net, if they had a workshop, if they had a series or a class, What? Based on your experience, what do you think would be helpful to include in a class of that nature?

Becky :

So I think our biggest questions were are we are we saying that this is right and proper by providing service it was a struggle based on just all, you know, we’re steeped in biblical truth and try to apply that across the board. And then it’s similar to though just the question of marriage or not living, you know, living together or not and do we provide services for clients who maybe aren’t living according to biblical standards And we do in so many other ways. The goal is to develop good relationships with the clients that we serve so that we can see their families succeed. And along the way we’re providing whole healthcare so it’s physical, mental, emotional, spiritual. So that there can be stability and truth that seeps in the whole family in all of those aspects and so we struggled with pronouns or not pronouns what’s going to be a turn off for the client versus what’s going to be remaining in truth And we landed on the side of using their name that they gave because we do that with any other clients but avoiding the use of pronouns as much as possible, because on our on our end, that’s pronouns are based on their original intent was to express gender and biology and so we’re going to promote truth as much as we can by avoiding the use of pronouns and providing service, trying not to turn away the person while we’re providing service so we just do our best to avoid and just use their name directly. Yeah, so.

Jacob Barr :

Oh, so I just did a podcast recently where it was, well, and we were talking about this idea of are we condoning behavior based on providing care and help after the fact? And so, like, for example, are we condoning premarital sexual activity by providing STI testing or are we providing the same care, you know, by providing pranky tests and ultrasounds? Are we, you know, all that they say is we’re not condoning the behavior we’re coming in to provide healing and restoration after, you know, after a problem has been created or after a problematic scenario has been created and I think that seems to apply here too, right? We’re not. Yeah that it’s not being condoned. Yeah but care is being provided based on the fact that care is now needed or out of curiosity, was this couple, were they? What was their risk level when it came to being at risk of choosing abortion? What was what was that in this scenario?

Becky :

They were not at risk of choosing abortion this was intentional as a couple they wanted to have a child and so had they had made the decision that because the woman who presented as a woman, well, I don’t want to give away any medical information, but just say it landed on the decision that the member of the couple who presented as a man would be the one to carry the child. And so then just not only this person, but other clients that we’ve seen who have even in same sex relationships or some transgender post birth, we do parenting classes for up to three years and so we see families a little bit longer maybe than some centers so we encounter families pre birth and post birth. But in dealing with many different couples the question comes up about roles within the family. So the member of the couple who takes on that male role often struggles with the biology of being female or birth parents and yet the role of dad in the family. And so you know it breaks my heart that that’s we’re at a place in the culture where that’s a struggle. But that’s something also that long term we can work through. And there is a website for an organization called them before us and it talks about just the role of parents for children and we’ve become so consumed with what meets parents needs and parents wants that children have been left behind. And so i did look at several different things from that group as well and just that child empowerment, child protection, that child’s needs focus really is helpful as well.

Jacob Barr :

Yeah, what so yeah, the parenting classes, that’s a really interesting thought like when it comes to how do you invite someone into a parenting class when the nature of their relationship doesn’t match the roles that are being, you know, that are like it sort of doesn’t fit within the framework of the traditional class and yeah I don’t yeah, that’s a really what about like I wonder if you could ask like would you like a counseling like a professional counseling referral or professional psychological referral Like would that be something you’d be interested in exploring with the idea of connecting someone with like a biological integrity counselors or psychologist who may be able to help when it comes to right reinforcing nature over manipulated, you know, realities?

Becky :

Well, and that’s if we that’s what we’ve done in that whole healthcare approach then just recognizing that for the clients that we’ve encountered who are dealing with this issue, there has been past trauma and pretty much everybody has past trauma. That’s just the nature of living in a broken world. But there’s been some severe past trauma and so just even the approach of an OR, you want to be the best parent that you can be for your child and so part of that is healing from the brokenness that you endured as a child so that you’re not passing that on to the next generation and Bright Course does have a good program on that we’ve begun using with a lot more clients, but also that then that referral to counseling that can help them work through those issues and get to. A solid foundation instead of a more confusion that’s a big part of why by serving the patient who we may be we’re questioning at first is this someone we can even help based on you know their gender preferences condoning or not and we chose to serve and so then we were able to provide connections for counseling connections to the medical care that they needed during pregnancy and then we did have the spiritual conversation during that clinic appointment that the person was open to and talked about their childhood experiences with church the desire to get back connected with church and able to encourage them to just get in their Bible and see what God’s plan and design for them and their family is. So all of that would not have happened if we had just said no, we absolutely can’t serve you so long term i think that after prayer and study, we came to the right decision in serving, but not cutting off truth with that service, not just erring on the side of love, we also lovingly provided that opportunity for spiritual conversation, which the person embraced and wanted in the conversation about past trauma they wanted someone to talk to and that counseling referral so giving people the opportunity to hear hope for healing is something that’s really important with what we do. And I think all of the directors, I mean that’s just part of our nature as PRCS, what we’re trained to do and what we seek to do in all aspects so it falls in line with what we do anyway.

Jacob Barr :

So when it comes to helping someone redeem their biological integrity, you know, going from, you know, appearing like a man, but biologically being a woman in your, you know, in your opinion or experience is at one point you mentioned, you know, helping someone dive into God’s word is a way for them to, you know, based on your research on the Internet, that was a way for them to find essentially that calling to go back to their, you know, to redeem their biological integrity. And so maybe, you know, inviting someone into religious conversations or a religious referral or things along those lines may be as helpful or maybe even more helpful or I don’t know, compared to like a counseling or psychological referral almost maybe as if that’s a better pathway towards restoration. I mean what are your thoughts on that thought?

Becky :

So we really try to make sure that we refer to Christian counseling and we OK so I’ve been hearing the term evidence based so much lately and I typically that’s used to point people towards secular things. And the evidence that I’ve seen from the testimonies of clients is that the secular counseling kind of keeps them, it seems to keep them in a cycle of brokenness because it’s very self-centered and self-directed and so it just feeds back into the same brokenness that people are trying to break out of. And not only our clients, but even government agencies in our area say that they would rather refer people to our center because they see better long term outcomes and change and stability than when they’re sending people to the secular sites and so we try to keep that in mind when we’re referring for counseling as well that we direct people to solid Christian counseling now there’s lots of red flags within the whole Christian counseling realm as well. And so we make sure that we vet who we are referring people to. So we did our staff, many of our staff went through training through light university. They have, it’s called mental health coach training and certification and there’s some coupon codes to get a really reduced rate on that training but it helped our staff a lot with that emergency moment when somebody comes in mental health crisis and how do we know what to do to refer them on to additional care or meeting needs that we could meet ourselves. So I do recommend that training that’s been helpful for our staff and that.

Jacob Barr :

Was called you said light training like LIGHT or?

Becky :

Light is Light university mental health coach training or mental health coach certification. They have, it is a university and they have several different trainings. There’s like life coach certification and the mental health coach and lots of counseling degree options. So the mental health coach certification, it was all online and they you have a year to complete it and they send the videos and you do tests based on the videos all from your computer so it’s very.

Jacob Barr :

Excessive. The next question I have I probably shouldn’t ask and so I may ask it, but you don’t need to answer and that’s do you know where this client may have received their home run blocks or the hormone ads, Do you know if it was from do you know what clinic, you know what kind of clinic maybe category of clinic we provided that or was that even part of the conversation?

Becky :

I don’t know that we asked where they received those, so i do not know and probably would not be able to answer just because that is medical information.

Jacob Barr :

That’s why I phrased it that way, because I yeah, I didn’t want to put you in a hard spot there but so when doing research on abortion clinic websites, one of my findings was that many as in like 70 % going way beyond Planned Parenthood. A huge majority of abortion clinics provide hormone blocks and cross stacks, hormone ads and essentially tea services. And it just makes me, you know, but this is the first story I’ve heard of a client, you know, and I’ve heard of it. I think other clinics have had this experience. But at the same time, this is not a story many people have heard and a lot of people have not had this experience yet as your as your clinic only had this one scenario so far or has there been repeats in this space?

Becky :

So that one, that one was pretty unique in that that’s I’m trying again, I’m trying to maintain confidentiality we have had other transgender clients and then we’ve encountered some similar conversations with same sex clients who aren’t transitioning or transgender, just same sex, some of the same, a lot of the same questions about roles that seems to come up pretty consistently. And one of the answers that just continually applies is parenting is about the child and what is best for the child and so it may not always match up with what the parents are feeling. But your job as a parent is to raise a child who is prepared for adulthood, who can succeed and thrive and have the stability that they need to be able to thrive as an adult and so just framing it in the way that conversation, what is best for your child seems to connect well with the parents because the parents that are coming in, at least the ones that we’ve had this is this is a whole different conversation when somebody is abortion minded but in the parenting decision and then in the parenting classes that we offer those parents, they do love their kids and whether they are biological kids or adopted kids or they are just in the home, they do love the kids and they want what’s best. They’re struggling a lot with what’s best for themselves. But when you turn the question to focusing on what is best for the child’s needs, then that tends to reshape the way that they interact with truth and responsibility.

Jacob Barr :

How did how did this client hear about you like on the intake form when you’re asking like did you hear about us on Google or word of mouth for friend, friend or professional etcetera, which what did they provide as how you know, as their you know source for how they heard about you?

Becky :

I believe that it was a referral from the health department, so.

Jacob Barr :

Ok.

Becky :

That’s word of mouth in our local health department we have a good relationship with them and so those are our two most common. But I do i think it was either online or the health department i kind of think it was the health department.

Jacob Barr :

Interesting So looking back at this experience, where do you see God’s presence or God’s fingerprints and how things played out?

Becky :

So that’s. I love that question i have to think about that but it’s it was good for our center because so many people in our culture today struggle with these issues and so we need to be prepared. God is not surprised by this. So we need to be prepared and I think the blessing on our end was to just work through how to love people where they’re at, but also not just love them and leave them, but love them enough to show them Christ and to point people towards stability just like we do with everyone else. And so on our end, that was good on the clients end, we were able to make referrals and to that counseling and also just encourage them to do what the Holy Spirit had been prompting them to like they had been convicted that they needed to get back in church and to read their Bible and so just to be that loving voice of you know you should do that and here’s a good place to start and to just be that vocal urge with the Holy Spirit have been nudging in their heart already but to be that vocal urge of yes that’s a great idea that ‘d be good for you and your family you should get back in and here’s where you can start here’s some we have we have a few different things that we give clients that just help them to connect with scripture and so providing some of that for them too so that was the blessing that we know that the child is well and thriving and we don’t know how the parents are doing we or not. You know callbacks are always hit and miss but just that truth would not have been spoken that the opportunity to connect with Christ. They didn’t have that in the other places that they had been. And so I think, eternally speaking, that that’s the best blessing out of the whole situation was just that they knew that we cared, they trusted our nurse, and they got to connect that to Christ. And so that’s what more can we ask for.

Jacob Barr :

Wow. And the materials that you sent on, like how to connect with Scripture, was that, was that a text link or was that like a physical pamphlet that you provided?

Becky :

We do physical pamphlet for the most part our nurse has a few different things that she chooses from typically she sends case for creator and case for Christ and I know there was an organization at the Alliance for Life conference that has those books available for no charge, which we have loved because we’ve been giving out for a long time and so now we have a source for those books to go out and then also the Gospel of John, there’s like a just a short book that the Gospel of John is a good, it’s always a good starting point for people who have not been in Scripture very much. She has a Bible that has a lot of those if you are feeling depressed or anxious or it’s got those when you’re feeling this way these are some scriptures, which I know there’s lots of arguments about is that in context, Out of context but at least it’s getting people in the Bible so that first step in, you know, the theological understanding will come later but you just got to get people in the word first so those lists of when you’re feeling this way, here’s some scriptures to go to. That’s a good first step, I think as well as some churches in the area that we know are prepared to be kind to people who come in who maybe don’t meet the normal church going look and they will start where the person’s AT and then disciple them from there if there’s a profession of faith. And you know biblical churches that are that are ready to meet the neighborhood where they’re at so we make those referrals as well.

Jacob Barr :

Wow that’s well so encouraging to hear and how you’re pulling things together and making, yeah, making it work and having resources and so with over this weekend and actually last week, I’ve been in communication with a few people, essentially working on a bright essentially a video that can be emailed to a client through bright course essentially with a series on how to read the Bible like starting off at like, Ground Zero for someone who hasn’t read the Bible before, hasn’t been in church before and how they can get started. And we’ve been trying to brainstorm on like, what that looks like how do you get the Bible, you know, online on app, Because at least we know that they’re on their phone when looking at this video. And so that’s something we’ve been trying to brainstorm through and research on how to prepare for that video series and so yeah, definitely sounds like it would pair up well with current resources and then yeah, having the ability to text a link would be helpful through bright training. I mean break course.

Becky :

Yeah, definitely.

Jacob Barr :

So when it comes to pricy clinic directors who have not experienced this scenario yet, what encouraging word would you like to share so that they can feel, I don’t know, encouraged or what might be a good direction for them to look into to get ready like, how would you encourage them to prepare as if it’s coming down the road in X number of months and it’d be helpful for them to look at it maybe sooner than afterwards?

Becky :

Right so I do encourage directors to talk with your board and just let the Board know this is we are likely going to have clients who are in this situation and so it’s important for everyone to be on the same page and I am thankful. So even though this was a surprise to us and i talked to our board afterward, they encouraged us in the way that we handled the situation. But it is important because so many people have such strong feelings as we should on this issue but then boots to the ground, how does this play out as we’re serving our area and we are called to reach the areas where we serve and we are the light of truth and hope and life in our communities and so how do people hear? How do people believe unless they are told? And So what does that telling look like and I am definitely just other directors we know this people are not going to hear when they are shouted at or condemned from the start that you have to build that bridge of communication in order for the truth to be told and so this is part of that, serving clients. It doesn’t mean that we offer puberty blockers or anything like that we’re not serving in that way, ever. That’s not the help that people need the help people need is to overcome whatever, whatever has happened in the past that leads them to feel like they have to kill off their old self and start a new, a new person it’s a it’s a form of escapism, just like drugs, alcohol, multiple sexual partners there. It’s that chase for what satisfies, just like any of the other things and so we need to as a team, they’ll come up with how we’re going to handle that situation and donors do have strong feelings about this, just like they do a lot of things, and donors may have strong feelings about that it’s not something that you have to necessarily advertise boldly, but you do as a board and staff need to be prepared with the steps of how you’re going to handle it how you’re going to refer to the clients pronouns are not the name are you going to use their ID name or the their preferred name? And how you handle if you offer parenting classes, how do you handle? Classes for someone who identifies as different than their biological gender. So those are all questions that you have to come up with and be ready for as a team because we have another client who one week came in as mom and next week came in as dad. So it’s you just never know how it’s going to happen in your center or who it’s going to happen to and so just being prepared ahead of time, let your staff know this is probably coming so being ahead of the game is always good.

Jacob Barr :

When it comes to your leadership team, how did you know? Reflecting back, how do you know? Was it your medical team leader that stepped up was it you know, one of your you know The Who on your team was really key and figuring out how to respond and help this client.

Becky :

So the couple was a walk in and so they were there we had an appointment open and so we served them our nurse came to me immediately because it was an unusual situation, but the decision was made right off the bat that we’re going to serve just like we do anyone else with the pregnancy test ultrasounds offer STD testing. Those are the services that we offer everyone and so that’s what we provided and then there was a lot of communication even during about as far as even the medical risks with the hormones and our nurse, our RN really was the one who stepped up she handled the appointment and then we talked a lot between the appointment and the follow up calls of what other follow up appointment and the follow up calls as to what other resources we needed to have ready for this couple. And she’s the one because she was working with them face to face and our nurse is amazing she just loves everyone and she is so kind but yet so strong. And so she was great about. She loves the person from the moment they walked in and that showed and that made such a difference in the appointment and what that person was willing for the nurse to offer as far as the other resources, the counseling and the church referrals and the Bible so that makes just like in all of our trainings that love that shows through first that’s what makes the difference so that’s what we have to be prepared for.

Jacob Barr :

Wow so about 14 weeks ago, the same before, I went to every abortion clinics that I could and I was seeing that these hormone blocks and hormone ads were showing up at 70 % of these abortion clinics. And Planned Parenthood was only one of those hundred and eighty eight websites that I was researching and the reason why I went to them was because I was collecting keywords and that part worked fine. But then yeah, seeing these hormone blocks and hormone ads and cross SEC essentially services tea services as an LGBT that those kind of tea services being I was not expecting to see that and then essentially like reflecting on that I felt like you know in 11 months or something from that point we would start to see the need for every clinic needing a place to refer for services. And at that point I was thinking counseling and psychology type of referrals but you’ve really opened my eyes to the religious referrals might actually be as helpful or better than the counseling and really having religious based counseling and psychology based referrals is absolutely key mostly because yeah the secular space may mark D transition as child abuse or as not allowed or forbidden and a religious organization can provide services based on faith-based on Bible, based on biblical founded truth and that’s really and really important so really that religious connotation or religious layer in counseling and help slash psychology services seems to be you know as important or maybe the most important variable in that referral. And then I also think maybe like in let’s say from this point maybe a year and a half we might start to see some pregnancy clinics this is me just guessing i’m not prophetic but this is me guessing in a year and a half from today we’ll start to see more clinics with in house services like psychological slash religious counseling and then that way sister clinics can refer to that clinic. For this scenario I don’t expect everyone to have the in house person but I do expect there to be a few and then that to be growing as the need increases because prancing clinics are really good at increasing scope of healing as we as we identify damage that needs to be restored and addressed and bandaged and our opposition has definitely yeah increased scope of evil so yeah I can imagine us increasing scope of love and care as a response And so I feel like that’s the direction we’re going and in some places this is outside of our lane. But at the same time, in some ways this is definitely in our lane like and so there’s a.

Becky :

Lot there right And even if even if the counseling licensing is beyond what centers can do that life coach training the even just when people see the certification that just that adds that layer of legitimacy that the secular world looks for and then our clients can trust as well. So that I sometimes feel like life coaches are a better way to go if you can’t do Christian counseling, I would almost recommend a life coach over secular counselor because life coaches are they’re going to problem solve with the clients and the. We do refer to counseling if that’s the only option. If there, if there’s no other Christian counselor in the area and or insurance prohibits, we refer to counseling i just want to make that clear but the counselors I’ve talked to who are Christians who maybe work in a field or a position where they can’t share faith. They even admit that the counseling really is a lot of spinning your wheels and reinforcing brokenness rather than helping people out of it and I think life coaching is about meeting goals because it has that similar to sports coaches your end goal is in mind and here’s steps to get there and things that you need to work through and overcome and gives practical application. So I don’t know if that’s good or bad and maybe that’s just in our area. That could be we do have a lack of counselors in our area, so being rural, it could just be part of our area i don’t want to say something negative about the whole field, I’m just speaking for where I serve so.

Jacob Barr :

Well when I when I first was trying to research like what our options were for counseling, I did a podcast with a woman from a group called changed.org OK which was a group essentially of people who went from LGBT to H for hetero slash J for Jesus and so and one of my questions, one of my first questions to her was where can a precis clinic refer for someone who needs counseling in this scenario. And her response was she was hoping the precis clinics would provide that solution or answer because they were also looking for that too. And I think the real answer is American College of Pediatricians, I think that’s the group who has a referral list and can help provide advice on who can provide help in this, in this space. And they don’t have all the answers, but I think they have more answers than anybody else at this time. And so the American College ACP which is really the sister group, the APLOG. The American Association of Pro-life just the OB doctors and but yeah a C P S i believe is the current front runner on where to get help and advice and but all that to say is this is this is a new a new a new scenario a new series of help and I’m hoping and really I think the prayer and the hope is that people will do what you have done and look to find answers when there really isn’t like a pre built key turn you can’t there’s no turn key solution at this point that means that someone needs to build the blocks build the tools so that it can be we’re in that building stage and if anyone is you know a bit further along than the average group it would be American the American College of Pediatricians, they seem to be front runners and I really hope we’ll continue to be leaders in this space. But people need to know that they are like one of the groups that have been faced with this because as pediatricians who are pro-life and loving Jesus, they’ve been working through this space, you know, as a group of doctors and high level medical people working through these scenarios. And the rest of us are now seeing the need for that information and that you know, having resources and tools that we can and having local referrals. Yeah so all of that just adds up into we’re in that stage of this part of the movement. This is like a building stage.

Becky :

Well, and I really appreciate the recommendation to check out American College of Pediatricians so we will definitely.

Jacob Barr :

They have a website calledbiologicalintegrity.org and they’ve just launched it i believe it was like a month ago or two months ago. Ok, but it’s brand new and it has content on this topic and essentially instead of saying D transition, they’re using the phrase biological integrity as a as a life affirming biological affirming phrase more so than like a negative phrase, which D transition has that negative connotation of like reversing or some negative phrasing as it comes off. But really, biological integrity is a much stronger phrase when it comes to saying, yeah, affirming your affirming what your biology is and what it started as and what you really are at the, yeah, biology level.

Becky :

Right and that’s part of that whole being true to yourself mindset part of yourself is your physical self and so it’s the whole again, our approach is physical, mental, emotional, spiritual it all goes together And so that whole adjusting the whole package instead of just one piece of it to the harm of the rest is something that we try to keep in mind and remind our clients of their whole selves and not just their emotional self or whatever it is that may be consuming their thoughts at the moment.

Jacob Barr :

Awesome well, so as we wrap up this podcast, would you share any final thoughts that you would like to share and then maybe say a prayer, the expectation that those who are listening will join you in prayer and or you know at least have the opportunity to join you in prayer if they want to?

Becky :

Awesome yes, I would love to. So final thoughts are just i am blessed to serve in this pro-life ministry with all of you and it’s saying always will find ways to attack and he is going to enjoy that and just last week that happened but then God finds ways to encourage. And so I also want to join in that encouragement to keep up the good work and not get disheartened that the battle may get harder but it’s all the more important that people continue to shine a light of hope and truth and love and there are people who believe and need that message and are ready for it and so I’m going to pray some of what we pray at our own center and then also just in general for all of the directors and Jacob, I also thank you so much for all of the things that you do for pro-life Ministries but in general, just I appreciate the ways that you find creative ways to find to help and to further this work so thank you all right my.

Jacob Barr :

Pleasure.

Becky :

Yeah, let’s pray, Father, I thank you for all of the people who are here, all of the ministries that are represented, and God, just the ways that you’re working across our country and around the world. And Father, I pray that you encourage the hearts of those who are serving there are days where things just feel overwhelming and evil feels big. But God, you are bigger and you are mighty and wise, and you know what is ahead and so, Father, we pray that you would keep away those who would do us harm and bring to our centers those who need you, who need the services provided here, who are ready to be freed from Satan’s eyes and from just the harm that evil has done to them we pray for the future generations that we are serving now. We pray for their lives to be saved we pray for their families to be stable and whole. And we pray for mothers and fathers to rise up and to be the mothers and fathers that their children need we pray for children to have stable homes and father we know that things often look too far gone to be redeemed, but you are the Redeemer. And so, Father, we put our hope in you and praise you and press on with the strength that you give us each day. Thank you, Father. In Jesus name, Amen