Hear Fr. Stephen Imbarrato share about how personhood is needed now.
In Episode 167 of The Pro Life Team Podcast, host Jacob Barr interviews Fr. Stephen Imbarrato, a Catholic priest and veteran pro-life activist, who passionately argues for abolishing abortion by recognizing constitutional personhood from conception under the Fourteenth Amendment. With over 30 years in the movement, Fr. Imbarrato shares his work with Jim Havens, including their radio show The Simple Truth and catholicabolitionists.com, which unites Catholics and others to end the “mass murder” of the preborn. He critiques incrementalism post-Dobbs, urging a unified push—potentially via a Trump executive order or a governor’s bold stance—to force the Supreme Court to affirm personhood. Highlighting his ministry, like performing exorcisms at abortion sites and founding pregnancy centers, he encourages support for these frontline efforts and celebrates ecumenical unity with evangelicals. Reflecting on God’s presence in life’s joys and tragedies, he closes with a prayer to inspire action, eyeing symbolic dates like March 25 or 2026 for a historic shift.
Transcript:
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
Well, Jacob, thank you for having me, and I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you about the fourteenth amendment, constitutional person from the moment of conception, our preborn babies being an excluded class, our preborn babies being mass murdered, and an opportunity to talk to those who are listening and watching on how we can bring this constitutional crisis, to an end, abolish abortion through constitutional person from the moment of conception.
Jacob Barr
Welcome to the Pro Life Team podcast. I am Jacob Barr, and here I’m with father Steven. And so, father, please introduce yourself and maybe share a little bit about the ministry that you’re you’re involved in.
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
Sure. Jacob, first of all, thank you for inviting me, and I want to, not only thank you, but tell everyone who’s listening and watching that I am representing not just myself, but Jim Havens, who I consider a partner in pro life activism. And, yeah, we’re gonna talk about tonight catholicabolitionist.com. And, I, go back thirty years in the pro life movement, maybe even longer now. Surely, I’ve been an activist since 1995, but got involved in pro life work even going back to the late eighties. Jim and I have been working together since 02/2017 or so when he started interviewing me on a radio show that he had called Love Will End Abortion, which he eventually changed to Love Will End Child Killing. That was a direct influence I had on him where I believe that we should always be using graphic images imagery, abortion victim imagery, so to speak, not just in showing the truth about abortion, but when we speak about it to portray the truth as much as possible.
So he interviewed me. I was working for Priest for Life at the time. He interviewed me on his radio show a couple of times. And then I left Priest for Life in 02/2019. And Jim asked me to do a weekly radio show with him called Stand Out for Life. And what we would do is he would go to his abortion facility in, Rochester, New York, and I would go to whatever abortion facility I happen to be at around the country. Because at that time, I was doing a ministry called On the Road for Life where I was going with a chapel camper from abortion mill to abortion mill, city to city, ministering to pro life activists, celebrating mass, doing prayers of exorcism, and basically ministering to pro lifers all over the country. So that went on for about a year, and then Jim was given an opportunity by his radio station to do another show called the simple truth from Monday through Friday And wanting to continue our pro life activism together, he asked me to do The Simple Truth on Fridays with them every Friday, and we called the show, The Simple Truth with Jim Havens, Fridays with Father, Cutting edge pro life commentary you will not hear anywhere else.
And so that show now, we’re in our fourth year, and it is exactly that. Cutting edge pro life commentary you won’t hear anywhere else. Like, for instance, we did show prep, today for tomorrow. And tomorrow, we’re gonna be talking about something that really no one has spoken about yet, That not only is 02/2025 a jubilee year in the Catholic faith, but it’s the thirtieth anniversary of Evangelion Vitae, the encyclical by Saint John Paul the second where he calls abortion murder, and then he calls everyone to energetically live the gospel of life on a cyclical that basically we’ve been ignoring for thirty years. And then, of course, we have now the first year of Trump’s for a second term, but really the first year of his presidency post Dobbs. And, us being post Dobbs, we are at a unique time in history, whereas Jim and I talk about we are a post Dred Scott pre civil war America in the twenty first century, where we should all be abolitionists just as the abolitionist movement was trying to abolish slavery in 1858. House divided cannot stand, Frederick Douglass, Abraham Lincoln, William Henry William Garrison.
And and very few people understand the moment in history that we’re in. So Jim and I now for the last three years or so have not only four years have been doing a radio show, but then we started the men’s march to abolish abortion. And rally for personhood where we focused on getting men to rise up and be men, to protect women, protect babies. We would do these events all over the country, and then they would conclude with rallies for personhood where we, again, would teach people and encourage people, energize people, towards standing on the fourteenth amendment that says, indeed no state can deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process nor can any state deprive any person of equal protection under the law. And, of course, we’re hearing all the time that, the abortion issue is now a state’s rights issue, but clearly the fourteenth amendment says it’s anything but a state’s rights issue. As a matter of fact, it’s a constitutional issue where we have an excluded class, the preborn that are being mass murdered. When denying their constitutional rights and to abolish abortion, we need to recognize their constitutional rights from the moment of conception.
So we had the men’s march to abolish abortion. We had rally for personhood. And now since the abolitionist movement in The United States is primarily evangelical, in nature, we felt to and a lot of times, our evangelical brothers and sisters who I’ve worked very closely with for the thirty years I’ve been doing pro life activism, don’t really include us. So we decided, well, in in in cooperation with them, not in it, not in contrast or opposition to them, we would try to gather Catholics into the abolitionist movement. And so we started catholicabolitionists,plural,.com, which, again, we stand on the fourteenth amendment, but also the catechism twenty two seventy, the Catholic catechism, that clearly says that human life begins at conception and that from the moment of conception, everyone should be treated, protected, and respected as human persons. Right? So it really supplements the fourteenth amendment from a theological standpoint.
And so you don’t have to be Catholic to be a Catholic abolitionist, but you have to stand on the fourteenth amendment and the catechism, the Catholic teaching of 2270. So that’s a quick thumbnail of, my last, six or seven years, but my ministry with Jim Havens and how it exists now.
Jacob Barr
Wow. Thank you for that, yeah, backstory and intro. So, I’ve got a lot of questions I’d like to ask you, but I wanna start off with you mentioned that you were doing prayers of exorcism, like, on the sidewalk. Was that a an abortion worker who was being maybe exercised or a woman who was, you know, a potential client. Yeah.
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
Alright. So, we have to understand that there’s different levels of demonic influence, so to speak. Right? Mhmm. We all understand that the evil one tempts us. Right? The temptation. Right? Well, that’s the lowest level of, any type of demonic influence.
The the greatest level of demonic influence is possession, where the evil one actually possesses people. In the Catholic faith, a certified or trained and appointed exorcist, is the only ones who can do, exorcisms on people. Right? They’re called, solemn exorcisms, major exorcism, possessions. Right? I am not an exorcist in the Catholic faith, but every priest in the Catholic faith can do what’s called minor exorcisms or exorcisms of location, exorcisms of place. And we know that these abortion facilities are demonically influenced, right? The evil one can get into any location and influence or oppress, it’s called an oppression, not a possession, but an oppression.
And so at these abortion facilities where we know Satan is doing his handy work, right? Child sacrifice is of, the, the, the, the evil one. I do, exorcisms of place, exorcism of location, and, they are special prayers designated or defined for that particular person. Any priest can do it. He does it within certain parameters, and, I have done these all over The United States. I’ve done them in Ireland, and, they’ve actually been quite effective, not only in protecting those who are doing pro life work on the sidewalk, but also and people ask me all the time, well, father, what do you think happens when you celebrate mass in front of these abortion facilities, you do these prayers of exorcism? And I said, well, I don’t know exactly what happens, but I know something happens.
But we have seen abortion facilities closed down. We’ve seen abortionists retire. I was in Baton Rouge, Louisiana when we did prayers of exorcism there three days and celebrated mass there two days. It was over Labor Day weekend, and it happened on Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Monday, I was driving back to where I was living at the time, Albuquerque. Tuesday, the abortion facility opened up, and the main abortionist walked into the facility on Tuesday and announced that he was retiring and he wasn’t gonna do any more abortions. And we have many, many stories like that.
So, in the Catholic faith, of course, the most powerful prayer we have is the holy sacrifice of the mass, and then we have prayers of exorcism. And, these are what for three years, I was, doing this almost exclusively, and, I I found it very, very effective. And it’s meant one of the many things that I’ve done as a pro life activist over the years.
Jacob Barr
Wow. That’s so, yeah.
I’m glad you explained that because, essentially, you know, talking about location versus person, that makes a lot of sense. So one of the pillars of this podcast is to share stories of encouragement to pregnancy clinic, leadership or executive directors primarily. Can you think of a what story comes to mind that you think an executive director of a pregnancy clinic would find encouraging? Or what’s something you would like to say that would, you know, maybe a story or a thought?
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
To all of the pregnancy resource center workers, volunteers, administration directors, I will tell you that my heart, my soul, every ounce of my being is with you. I have been blessed to found two pregnancy resource centers, one in Hartford, Connecticut in the year 02/2004. I was still in the seminary. And then in Albuquerque, New Mexico after I got ordained to the priesthood. These are the frontline workers in the pro life, movement. And I think that the the unsung heroes right now or I should say, for many years, we have seen, many high profile, pro life so called heroes, and I could name them and you’d recognize every name. And I think we tossed the word hero around too readily within the movement.
Not that there aren’t many heroes, but the heroes are the people in front of the abortion facilities every day. Counseling women, rain, sleet, snow, hundred degree temperature, counseling women trying to save babies. And then, of course, the volunteers and the staffs, the administration of these pregnancy resource centers that are on the front lines day in and day out. Right? So they are near and dear to my heart. Every single day on my podcast, I talk about how everyone should be donating to their pregnancy resource center nearest them, and, to reconsider, giving money to the national movement and start giving money locally. You know, the national movement brings in tens of millions of dollars a year, pays out tens of millions of dollars a year in salaries, in marketing, in any number of expense categories.
And, these pregnancy resource centers, all of them operate on shoestring budgets, require, really volunteers to supplement, who they can pay. And as much as maybe these pregnancy resource centers have plenty of diapers, plenty of maternity clothes, and other resources to give women to choose life for their babies, very few of them, if any of them, have marketing budgets where they can tell their surrounding community the good work and the resources they have available for women who are pregnant, alright, and in crisis. And I really think that right now every pregnancy resource center should have a marketing budget, whether it be for billboards, whether it be for local newspaper ads or radio ads to let the surrounding community know the good work that they’re doing because I know for a fact that they’re saving babies day in and day out. I celebrate mass once a month at a local pregnancy resource center. And right before mass, we had a woman come in, thought she was going to the abortion, to the abortion mill next door. She walks in, they show her an ultrasound, and the next thing you know, alright, she is life minded instead of abortion minded. And there’s many, many, many such stories even going back to the pregnancy resource centers that I founded many years ago.
Hundreds and hundreds of women, who are being given alternatives, to, offering up their babies. Alright. To these abortionists for sacrifice. And most of these women do wanna have the opportunity to say no to abortion and yes for life. And, I just really feel and, again, I I was just in a in another pregnancy resource center last week. I was at an event Tuesday night, at a, that sponsored by a pregnancy resource center in Gainesville. The event was at Alcala, where again, I talked about the importance of pregnancy resource centers.
So I really think the entire movement right now should be about two things. Saving as many babies as we can through pregnancy resource centers and abortion advocacy in front of the abortion mills. And then also, alright, looking to abolish abortion through constitutional personhood, by recognizing the, the the rights of of babies from the moment of conception that are delineated in the fourteenth amendment.
Jacob Barr
I yeah. I agree. Yeah. I I I agree completely that we need a a, you know, a national level ban on, you know, killing those at the earliest moments of life. And in the same way that it shouldn’t be legal to have a slave in one state and illegal in another state, you know, in the same way that it shouldn’t be okay to kill somebody in one state and okay in another you know, we should have the same rules on things that are that have, you know, such grave moral consequence.
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
Well, let me let me give you some dramatic examples of what you just talking about. When you think about and that’s why the inalienable right to life endowed by our creator. It’s inalienable. It’s given to us by our lord and savior Jesus Christ, not by anyone else, not by any person, not by any state, not by any government, not by any legislature, no one else, not the mom, no one else. By our creator, it’s inalienable. Right? Okay. Well, you have a situation where in, Texas, a baby in the womb has full constitutional rights.
The mom steps foot into New Mexico, and that baby has no constitutional rights. Even more dramatic, you have a situation where Missouri, on one day, a Monday, right, the babies had full constitutional rights. And the next day the next day, the babies had no constitutional rights. All of these abortion referendums that we see around the country are all unconstitutional because no state if you remember the wording of the fourteenth amendment, no state has a right to allow a group of persons in their state to decide or determine whether another group of persons in that state can be murdered or not. That’s directly against the fourteenth amendment. So this is becoming more and more obvious, and, really, I think there’s two, areas that we should be putting, our emphasis on. Number one, Donald Trump Donald Trump, who can be the new Lincoln and sign a new emancipation proclamation, a presidential executive order on personhood recognizing person from the moment of conception.
And let’s remember that this Supreme Court is his Supreme Court. And they overturn Roe versus Wade, and they say it’s a state’s rights issue, but it’s not a state’s rights issue, and they know it. Yeah. So president Trump should sign the presidential executive order recognizing person from the moment of conception, then challenge his Supreme Court to finish the job they started in Dobbs and finish the job by finally making it clear to everyone that personhood in the fourteenth amendment, alright, is from the moment of conception, That equal protection is from the moment of conception, and that would abolish abortion, throughout the country. Now there are some issues involved with this. And, of course, there’s a big debate going on between abolitionists and Kristen Hawkins right now on social media about the criminalization of women, alright, if indeed equal protection becomes the law of the land from the moment of conception. And a matter of fact, actually, before you you, hooked me up, j Jacob, I was answering the same question for someone online.
We need to remember and this is how you answer this issue. We need to remember that if indeed a person from the moment of conception is recognized and equal protection is recognized from conception, there’s not gonna be a million abortions a year. There’s gonna be thousands of abortions that’ll all be illegal. Alright? Every abortion will be investigated as a potential homicide or potential murder unto itself. Right? And the facts of the case will lead to guilt.
A man who spikes his girlfriend’s drink with RU four eighty six and she aborts. Right, he’s guilty of murder. She’s not guilty of anything. The abortionist, alright, who provides the means of abortion is always guilty. But there’s other scenarios where the woman might be completely guilty. The facts of the case will point to guilt. But now let’s understand that as much as this is a constitutional and federal issue, states are the ones who determine how to deal with it.
Is it premeditated homicide? Is it first degree, second degree? Is it manslaughter, voluntary, involuntary? And the states will be the ones to determine, alright, what are the penalties for someone who’s guilty or somewhat complicit, alright, in an accomplice, in these situations. So to think that every woman’s gonna go to jail is absurd. To think that no woman could go to jail is absurd. Alright? But to have equal protection, the states will decide, alright, how justice is meted out once there’s equal protection from the moment of conception.
It’s not gonna be really the way it’s portrayed by the abolitionists, but it’s not gonna be portrayed it’s not gonna be the way it’s portrayed by some pro lifers either.
Jacob Barr
Yeah. That’s that’s it makes sense. So going back to preciscenters and something else you said about the Catholics and evangelicals, would you talk for a bit about, you know, the, how God uses a bridge between Catholics and evangelicals often found within the Prensi Clinic space? How, How you know, because it it from my experience, one third of preclinical centers are Catholic, one third are evangelical, and then one third are mixed, you know, Catholic and evangelical. But it seems like, you know, all the way from Catholic to evangelical, including especially that mixed group, there’s a there’s a really good bridge where people, get along really well because they’re on mission together. Would you speak about that sort of that range and that bridge?
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
You know, true ecumenicalism, ecumenism, however you wanna use the word, pronounce the word, right, is in the pro life movement. And, as the Catholic priest, I’ve always been ecumenical. And I started a Catholic ministry called Project Defending Life in Albuquerque. But my two first paid stipend employees were my evangelical friends, Bud and Tara Shaver. Right? I I said, look it. I’ll work with anyone who wants to abolish abortion as long as they understand that Jesus is our lord and savior and, that indeed we are going to stand on moral absolutes.
In our Catholic faith, we understand that abortiface of contraception is illicit. It’s immoral.
IVF is illicit. It’s immoral. Immoral experimentation such as embryonic stem cell tissue research, immoral. Right? A twenty two seventy in the catechism. As long as you’re willing to stand on those principles and you believe that Jesus is our lord and savior, then I will work with you. I am a little reticent about, people who are anti abortion, but they don’t care, what the context of marriage is or the context of families or they call themselves atheistic or they’re okay with contraception.
I I have trouble working with them because, you know, these things are all abominations against God, and you can’t choose to, be against one abomination and accept another abomination. Right? But in terms of ecumenism, in terms of, working with our Christian brothers and sisters, I love the fact that we have common ground in these, pregnancy resource centers. Now I actually gave a talk. It was about 02/2008, go way, way back, in, to a group of pro lifers in Las Cruces, New Mexico, and I addressed this elephant in the living room that there are circumstances or situations where evangelicals don’t feel comfortable working with Catholics and Catholics don’t feel comfortable working with evangelicals. Alright. Fine. Let’s acknowledge it, alright, and find the common ground where we can work together, but let’s not turn it into some device of brouhaha. Right? I am so pleased that since that period of time, because that was more demonstrative back in those days, where we do have exactly, I think, as you laid out. Alright? One third Catholic, one third Protestant, and one third don’t care. Alright? Catholic, Protestant, we’re gonna work together.
We’re gonna save babies. And I believe that that’s accurate, in terms of how the the breakup happens. This event that I did Nokala on Tuesday night was sponsored by a nondenominational pregnancy resource center.
The MC was an evangelical pastor. The speakers, the fourth the three of the four speakers were Catholic. There were Catholic pregnancy resource centers there. There were evangelical resource centers there. There were non non denominational pregnancy resource centers there. This type of unity, this type of cooperation within the body of Christ will facilitate bringing about the abolition of of of, preborn mass murder. And, of course, I I’m I’m so happy that we’re getting, past some of these divisions because all these divisions are of the evil one trying to keep us from taking away his child’s sacrifice.
Jacob Barr
Yeah. So speaking of abolitionists and, you know, the different you know, the, you know, the, well, passing laws to try and incrementally make abortion harder to get I think everyone could agree that we want to save as many lives as possible. And, ultimately, anyone who is looking to do incremental changes would love to see it just be ended completely. And so even though it feels like there might be two camps, I really think we’re really all wanting to save as many lives as possible and to have it become unthinkable, not you know, I have abortion end completely. But at the same time, trying to save as many lives as possible while we’re in that while we’re in the space that we’re in. What are your thoughts on on those kind of thoughts? So
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
The the the whole idea of incrementalism and Saint John Paul the second, the Evangelion Vaidti said that it’s completely moral to save as many babies as you can until we can save all the babies. Yeah. However, I really think one of the flaws of the pro life movement has been that they’ve used incrementalism overly cautiously. Right? And that they’ve used incrementalism as an excuse to not get to a line, alright, that defines everything we can possibly do. Right? They’ve done less than what we could possibly do.
I think that incrementalism was more relevant before the overturning of Roe versus Wade. Alright? Because, again, there was this misnomer that abortion was constitutional before the overturning of Roe versus Wade. Roe versus with the Dobbs decision, laid the lie to expose the lie that there’s no constitutional rights to abortion. Now that abortion is unconstitutional, clearly unconstitutional, I really think that everyone should be on the same narrative, that this is a constitutional issue. Abortion is unconstitutional. This is not a state’s rights issue.
We are denying the constitutional rights of the preborn. We are, allowing an excluded class to preborn from the moment of conception to the moment of birth, and we are allowing them to be mass murdered, and this is intolerable. So this these these fights, these downright fights that we saw in Dakota, Georgia, and a couple of other places where the pro life leadership is trying to destroy legislation put forth by abolitionists, and abolitionists trying to destroy legislation put forth by pro lifers is of the evil one. Right? But somehow we need to get on the same page with the same narrative. I just laid out the narrative and find some CEO, governor of Oklahoma, governor of Florida, governor of Texas, attorney generals, even even federal court judges, Donald Trump, somebody, somebody. Because don’t forget every governor, the president, every federal judge swears on the Bible to uphold the constitution that includes the fourteenth amendment.
If we can get one person, alright, let’s say governor DeSantis to just say, look it. I have a super majority in my house and senate. I have a six one state supreme court. I am based on and there is a person who’d clause in the Florida constitution, based on article one section two in the, Florida constitution, based on the fourteenth amendment of the US constitution. I am recognizing person from the moment of conception in Florida, and I am shutting down all the abortion bills. Now if he did that, there’d be an injunction overnight. It would go to the Florida Supreme Court.
The Florida Supreme Court would uphold it. Right? Not uphold the injunction, would uphold the the, the executive order. It would go to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court be forced to finish the job they started in Dobbs.
I think that needs to be the strategy. And I think we’re really wasting time now with all this incrementalism. I think we’re wasting time fighting these battles of these abortion amendments state by state by state. It’s a losing proposition unless we are going to call these amendment these abortion amendment proposals unconstitutional, and we’ve never heard that. And I’ve been crying to the pro life movement and abolitionists. Every one of these amendments are unconstitutional. Right? I laid it out why before, and I think that this is the single narrative that we have a constitutional crisis.
It’s a national emergency, and it needs to end now by recognizing we have an excluded class with mass murdering, recognizing their rights from the moment of conception, then it’s over.
Jacob Barr
Wow. I really hope those who listen will figure out a way to take action on that because that sounds spot on to me. Like, that’s that sounds like, you know, the person had argument. I remember hearing about it first at a NIFA conference, and and they’re talking about how it was I’m glad you’re
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
Zack Stewart.
Jacob Barr
Yeah. And and I believe the time is now. You know, post Dobbs Right. Is the personhood you know, this is this is when personhood becomes the the tactic of our current time. And I think you’re right. Exactly. Okay. So my next question for you, this is another one of our pillar questions for the podcast is, when I if I ask you where have you seen God’s fingerprints in the pro life movement, What is a story that comes to mind first?
Or or or, you know, one of the top stories that comes to mind.
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
I, am gonna be 73 years old next month. I’m a great grandpa priest, a rarity in the Catholic church. And I just two weekends ago, it my great grandson, my youngest great grandson, my newly born great grandson, was delivered on February 14, Valentine’s Day. And two days later, that Sunday, I was able to hold my great grandson and see his little fingers and see his little toes and, and his little ears, his perfect little ears. Right? And see the joy of his, older brother and two older sisters holding. I I was able to videotape the siblings seeing the baby for the first time and the joy that everybody had.
That same period of time, friends of mine in South Florida, friends of Jim Havens, their two year old, their toddler had a a pool accident and was on life support and eventually died. And the outpouring, the sorrow, the tragedy of of that loss. Right? And the contrast of the sorrow and the tragedy of losing that little toddler while we’re experiencing the joy of this newborn and the reaction of everybody towards it. It was emotional. It was hopelessness on one on one hand and great hope on the other hand. Right? And and I just kept thinking to myself and praying about it.
Lord, if everyone could come to an understanding of what I just experienced in these few days, the joy of life, of new life, and yet the tragedy of life lost. Right? If everyone could understand that, alright, about what we’re dealing with here, that this is not a political issue. This is not a human rights issue, a civil rights issue. This is an issue of life and death. When it comes to little babies, we forget that they’re just little babies. Right? And I really think that the pro life movement over the years has turned it into a women’s issue in response to the abortion industry making it a women’s issue. Right? The abortion, the abor the pro abortion crowd have turned it into a women’s issue.
We fall into that trap of fighting them on that level that this is a woman’s issue, and we’ve forgotten about the babies. What about the babies? What about the rights of the babies? And I just really think and when I see a little bit, I have a a Christian couple, young couple, who live across the street from me, and and Abby is due, probably in a week and a half. And, every time I see her, right, and she’s a wee little thing with just the the baby evident and and this big smile comes to my face. And Talley next door has a one year old Owen with this big bushy red head of red hair, and he’s just always with a smile and, you know, and we need to start humanizing this, this reality and understanding that that these are truly babies that we’re allowing to be killed, allowing to be murdered, and they’re god’s babies. Right? In the Catholic tradition, Jesus is very clear how we’re gonna be judged.
Matthew chapter 25 verses 31 to 46. What you do for the least of my brethren, you do for me, what you don’t do for the least of my brethren, you don’t do for me.
Who is he talking about? The preborn, the poor, the sick, the thirsty, the naked, the homeless, the the hungry, the imprisoned. Right? His little babies are little brothers and sisters, and and that’s what comes to mind, every single day with me. That this whole idea that these are Jesus’s babies. In today’s gospel, he says, let the children come to me. And so that is, you know, really what I’d like all of our Christian brothers and sisters out there to think each and every single day.
Think about the last time you held the baby, and the little fingers and the little toes. And of course, we’ve had stories of abortionists. There’s a story of an abortionist that did thousands of abortions. And in one day on the little table next to the abortion he was doing, he saw a perfect little ear. Now he’d seen fingers and toes and ears for years, but one day he just looked at that little ear and saw the perfection in that little ear and he said, I can’t do this anymore. I can’t this is god’s grace at work and we need to see god’s grace at work and at the same time, have fear of the lord. That’s the beginning of wisdom.
And once we see it in that context, I really think people will become as motivated as they should be, and the end will come pretty quickly.
Jacob Barr
Well, that’s good. Wow. Thank you for sharing that. One of one of the verses that comes to mind as you’re talking was, Psalms one thirty nine, and especially, verse 16 says, your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be. Meaning, you know, god was he planned out our days before before we were before we were created. And it’s just beautiful how much he cares for us and loves us and and, yeah, and every child, you know, is in I I think every child is included in Psalms one thirty nine when it comes to how God cares for
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
people. Well, you know, Jacob so for in a bigger context, right, in a bigger context, and I’ve been meditating on this quite a bit. Right? You know, I I didn’t know Monday morning who you were. I surely didn’t know that we were gonna have this interview till Tuesday. Right? God knew that this interview is gonna take place at 06:30 today from the beginning of salvation history.
When you were nothing more than a thought in God’s mind before he willed you into being, and I was a thought in his mind before he willed me into being, He knew that we would be having this conversation today. This is this is how we need to view the divine providence of our lord and savior Jesus Christ. Right? And it’d be and I always say, you know, fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom, but all of the Lord is the fulfillment of wisdom. Right? And when I think of those types of terms and I try to think of that way all the time, I’m in awe. I’m in awe.
But with that awe comes a tremendous responsibility. Saint Thomas Aquinas says, we are on a journey for the truth. We’re called to seek the truth. Once we find the truth, we’re responsible for the truth, but we’ll also be held accountable for the truth. Right? And, of course, we know the truth is not something. It’s someone.
It’s our lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Jacob Barr
Wow. Yeah. That’s that’s beautiful.
So one of the other pillars of this podcast is like I like to share ideas that are not commonly adopted or not commonly known or not commonly used. And I think I think the I think the the idea that might need to be re echoed or maybe just rephrased would be the personhood amendment is really that idea that a lot of us have heard it. A lot of us know a bit about it. But really, that’s the new idea I think that we have in front of us as a group is so you were talking about how a governor could pass the personhood amendment for their state. Right?
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
Can you Yeah. Let’s use let let’s use proper terminology. Okay? We don’t need an amendment. We already have the fourteenth amendment.
Jacob Barr
Okay.
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
And we don’t need an amendment. Okay? We need one case. We need one case in front of the Supreme Court. And let me put it in this context. I I I sat with a lawyer on the phone for a half hour one day. And and I’m not a lawyer.
I’m a priest. I’m a great grandpa priest. Yeah. I have an MBA. I have a master’s in theology. Okay? But I’m not a lawyer.
But in a half hour at the end of the half hour, he says, father, he goes, I have never heard this. And he’s a constant I mean, he deals with constitutional law. Right? He says, I’ve never heard it put in such plain, simple, language as you do. Okay? It’s this simple. Alright. Supreme Court of the United States.
We have the fourteenth amendment where our inalienable right to life cannot be taken away without due process, and we’re guaranteed equal protection under the law. That’s what the fourteenth amendment says. So Supreme Court of the United States, when did Jacob and when did all of you and when did father Imberato and when did every person in The United States receive, at what moment, these constitutional rights?
At what moment? Every person in United States already has these rights. When did we all receive it? When? We just want you to answer that simple question. Supreme Court of United States, you have equal protection under the law. You your inalienable right to life cannot be taken without due process. At what moment did you receive those constitutional rights?
Well, it can only be at one moment, the moment of conception. And if it was the moment of conception then, why are you not recognizing that? Why are you not telling the American peoples from the moment of conception? Why are you allowing these babies, alright, to be denied their constitutional rights and allowing them to be mass murdered? And what I tell people is the blood of every baby now being killed through abortion is on the hands of the Supreme Court of the United States. Alright? Five of them Catholic, one of them evangelical. Right? And and they know it.
And when they put their head down on the pillow, they know it. But why aren’t they taking a personal case? Why aren’t they because we’re not demanding it. In 1858, the entire country was focused on was slavery moral or immoral? Was it right or wrong? Was it a good or an evil? The entire country.
When they overturn Roe versus Wade with Dobbs, they really I believe that they thought that it would create a national debate over, as you said, how can Texas be abortion free and how can New Mexico have abortions up to the day of birth? How can Missouri be abortion free one day, fully abortion the next day?
How can this happen? How can these abortion amendments turn states overnight? Right? They they know this.
They know this. But we did not recognize the moment that God gave us, the moment that we’re in right now. And so everyone, I think, needs to be focused on this this reality that God’s babies are persons from the moment of conception, and we need to demand the Supreme Court to do nothing more than acknowledge that, recognize it, and then it’s over.
Jacob Barr
Yeah. Yeah. And that makes I that that makes so much sense.
I love I love your your passion and your call your call for people to voice the need for the Supreme Court to consider and review and make a decision on this. But we yeah. And the people need to rise up. And so it sounds like, yeah, the Supreme Court needs to let that case come in, and people need to voice the need for that case to be let in until it’s let in.
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
Now how do you force that case? Right? How do you force so if if they’re if they’re refusing to take a personal case because they’re afraid it’ll start a civil war, and nobody’s demanding they take a personal case, so they’re not taking a personal case. I understand that.
That’s human nature. So how do we force them to do it? Well, you force them to do it by, for instance, president Trump signing a presidential executive order recognizing personhood, which then the other side will will will put, get a motion, an injunction against it, which is the quickest way to get it to the Supreme Court. Or as I laid out a governor recognizing person from the moment of conception in their state, and then it’ll go through the judicial process and pretty quickly get to the Supreme Court. They’d have to take the case. Now could they deny personhood from the moment of conception? Would that be the worst judicial ruling?
That’d be worse than Dred Scott. That’d be worse than Roe versus Wade. Imagine them actually acknowledging officially and publicly that babies from the moment of conception, at the moment don’t have any constitutional rights. I don’t know if you’ve seen doctor Lyle’s presentation. I just saw it Tuesday night, where medically, he goes through all the procedures that we’re performing on babies in the womb, and he says that, you know, every patient is every patient is a person, right, no matter how small. And, I mean, he makes this compelling case. We know this is abundant case law already out there.
There’s indisputable science. So we know we get a case in front of the Supreme Court. They can’t deny what is true. But we do have a window. Right? Because let’s say the court gets overturned by the liberal crazies in the next administration. We do have a window of opportunity that god has given us, and we need to act on it now.
We can’t be standing there saying, oh god. When did we see you? Right? When when did we well, that all goes sway with God in Matthew 25. Right? When did we see you, lord? You know?
Well, when you when you didn’t take care of the least of my brethren, you didn’t take care of me, and then you go. Right? So, we don’t need an amendment. Alright? We we need people to rise up. And, again, catholicabolitionist.com, plural, catholicabolitionist.com. Rally for person Com is another website.
All the talking points are there. How to contact Trump is there, and and we’ll be sending out we’re not gonna do any fundraising. We don’t need money. We don’t want money. We’ll send out action plans, action alerts for people to contact Trump. In his first term, we contacted him. Do you know that president Trump was, born on flag day, June fourteenth? Right? But in the Catholic tradition, he was conceived on September 14, which in the Catholic tradition is the exaltation of the cross.
So he was born in the Catholic tradition on seventh on September 14, the exaltation of the cross, Christ dying on the cross. Right? And he was born on flag day.
Raise the flag. Right? So, again, catechism twenty two seventy, fourteenth amendment. I just really think all the signs are there from God. Now we just need to say yes to our lord. Rise up as the people of God, and let’s bring this constitutional crisis, this nightmare to an end.
Jacob Barr
Wow. Well and and, March 25 is coming up next month, and that would be nine months before December 25. So symbolically, that would be the day that Jesus became flesh.
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
That’s right.
Jacob Barr
And The
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
incarnation of our lord. The enunciation.
Jacob Barr
Yeah. And so yeah. I think that would be a good day for president Trump to to fully embrace personhood is on March 25 next month. And and and Really, the twenty fifth of any month.
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
That’s well, Mark, that’s right. But now, you know, I I talked about how 2025 is a very special year, but it’s followed by even in a more incredibly special year because next year is the semi quincentennial. It’s the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of our founding of the of our Independence Day next year, 02/1926. So in our two hundred and fiftieth anniversary, our two hundred and fiftieth birthday next year, are we gonna be a nation are we gonna be a nation that’s totally and completely free, where everybody has equal protection, where there’s no excluded classes, or are we gonna be a nation, alright, in our two hundred and fiftieth anniversary where we have an excluded class who were mass murdering? I think it’s a matter of what does scripture say. Life or death, blessing or curse. Right? And I think that this year, looking at next year, that’s why I really think that president Trump is ripe.
Pray for him. He’s ripe for, having this mindset that we know he had in the first term. We know he had that mindset in the first term. Politics got in the way. But as much as he’s not morally wedded to it, I believe his legacy is And being the new Lincoln, the new emancipation proclamation, we need to rise up and just convince him that that is what his destiny is.
Jacob Barr
Wow. So so father Steven, would you wrap up and close out this podcast with a prayer with the expectation that those who are listening will echo and join in on and and calling calling for personhood through Trump, through whether this this year or next year, but I feel like this you’re right. We have a window when you know, with our our country, and this window is now.
Fr. Stephen Imbarrato
Alright. So I’m going to put this prayer in a Catholic context for all of our Christian brothers and sisters out there.
Please do not be offended. I love you very much. Alright? But let’s pray. Name of the father, son, the holy spirit, amen. Father in heaven, name of your son, our lord Jesus Christ. We ask you to send the holy spirit down upon us, lord.
First of all, thank you for this opportunity for Jacob and I to come together and speak to all of those who are listening, who are watching. We thank you for the opportunity to proclaim your truth. Open up the hearts and minds of those who hear us and see us that your truth may be heard. Your truth being proclaimed, lord, your truth being heard. May we go out and live your truth. Fill us with the holy spirit that we in some small way going forward each and every day can bring souls to salvation and then the scourge of abortion, our cities, our state, our country, and our culture. We ask this through the intercession of the blessed Virgin Mary, all the angels, martyrs, and saints in the name of the father, son, the holy spirit. Amen.
Jacob Barr
Amen.