Listen to Dr. Jill Simons and Jacob Barr talk the harms of transgender ideology and its connection to the pro-life movement.
Summary of Episode:
In this episode of the Pro-Life Team Podcast, I had the privilege of conversing with Dr. Jill Simons, a pediatrician and the Executive Director of the American College of Paediatricians. We delved into the complexities surrounding the transgender ideology movement and its connection to the pro-life cause. Dr. Simons emphasized the mission of ACP to always prioritize what’s best for children, starting from the preborn period. She highlighted the lack of scientific evidence supporting transgender interventions in children and the potential harms they pose.
We discussed the emerging trend of gender dysphoria in children and how it’s often intertwined with underlying mental health issues. Dr. Simons stressed the importance of treating these underlying issues first. She pointed out the detrimental effects of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones, including their impact on brain and bodily development, and the irreversible consequences they can have on fertility.
A significant part of our conversation focused on the challenges and attacks faced by those advocating for biological integrity. Dr. Simons shared her concerns about the misinformation and ideological pressures permeating the medical and educational fields, highlighting the risks posed by social media and school curricula in influencing children’s perceptions of gender.
I also explored the website BiologicalIntegrity.org, an initiative by ACP, which offers resources for parents, doctors, and policymakers. This platform aims to provide factual information and support to those navigating the complexities of gender dysphoria in children.
In our dialogue, I was particularly interested in the role of pregnancy clinics in addressing these issues. We discussed how these clinics could provide referrals for sound, holistic counseling, including biblically-based psychological services, to support individuals experiencing gender dysphoria.
Dr. Simons and I agreed on the importance of sticking to biological facts in medical practice, especially in scenarios involving gender and reproductive health. She emphasized the need for medically grounded, fact-based approaches, regardless of external pressures or ideological influences.
Concluding our conversation, we reflected on the importance of faith and God’s presence in guiding our work. We shared a mutual belief in the power of prayer and the need for divine guidance in navigating these challenging and often controversial issues.
In essence, this podcast highlighted the complexities surrounding the transgender ideology movement, especially concerning children, and underscored the importance of a fact-based, compassionate approach to healthcare and education.
Podcast Trasncript:
The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.
Dr. Jill Simons :
Welcome to the pro-life Team Podcast i’m Doctor Jill Simons, paediatrician and Executive Director of the American College of Paediatricians. I’m here with Jacob Barr and today we are talking about the harms of the transgender ideology movement and its connection to the pro-life movement and some of the wonderful solutions we’ve thought of and the direction this needs to go.
Jacob Barr :
So Jill, I’m excited to have you on the pro-life Team Podcast welcome. Would you introduce yourself as if you were talking to a small group of pregnancy clinic leadership teams, maybe specifically executive directors, but also the medical team leaders on their team?
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah thanks for having me, Jacob. My name is doctor Jill Simons i’m a general pediatrician and I’m also the executive director of the American College of Paediatricians. And we, the mission of ACP is to just do what’s best for children, and that starts in the preborn period and so we work to protect the rights of our smallest patients every day wow.
Jacob Barr :
I’m so glad that you’re on here because there’s the well, I feel like. Your group has been fighting in a space where the rest of us are starting to catch on that there is a fight and we’re starting to realize how well connected it is to the work within Precy Clinics.
Dr. Jill Simons :
Would you talk about the launch of the biological integrity, you know, just any part of that you think that people should know and hear if you would just talk about that for a while, right yeah and you know, first of all you’re so right to say that this issue, the pro-life issue is connected to the protection of children’s biology you know that the trans fighting back against the transgender movement, they’re very connected and it’s not obvious at first but as we just recently saw in Ohio with the bill that was or the Constitution change that was made, you know, it was marketed as a an abortion rights bill, but it really opened the door for an umbrella category of reproductive rights that can include potentially transgender interventions and on minors. So they’re very connected and it’s important that all of us in this fight to protect life whether it’s the UN preborn or you know life till natural death in all its beauty. It’s important that we recognize the attacks against life in all its forms. So we have been like I said initially doing what’s best for children since the inception of ACP. And it was the college ACP was founded because some members of the American Academy of Pediatrics much larger pediatric group, they were getting frustrated that the AAP was straying from scientific resources and they were not basing their decisions on medical evidence and when what was best practice they were following some of the political wins and going not even listening to the members sometimes. So we’ve recognized that when you’re making medical decisions for children you have to look at all the evidence. And this the transgender interventions. When this started to occur and started to affect children, we quickly realized that there is no research here there’s no evidence that this is good medicine and in fact there is evidence that it’s doing harm. So we’ve been in this since the beginning. It’s really heated up though in the past, even just a couple years. And well, we are involved in many other things with the healthcare of children and the rights of paediatricians, this issue was clearly getting a lot of attention and there was a need for resources for parents, for doctors, for policy makers. And so we decided to launch an initiative that we would really focus a lot of our efforts on getting this information out there. And it involved the biggest, the biggest visible part of this initiative is our biologicalintegrity.org website where we’ve piled just it’s loaded with good stuff, fact sheets a map to see where you know where the country’s at for these transgender laws and protection laws specifically for minors. So we launched that over a month ago and we have just spent our inboxes are overflowing. People are very excited about it and passing it along, which is which was the intent.
Jacob Barr :
Wow, thank you so much for yeah, for your I really appreciate your group and I know it’s a large team effort when it comes to having a voice, being bold. You know, not backing down to Goliath like insults or Goliath like pushes. So I’m wondering if we should, you know, well, let me human health HHS dot. Gov Human Health Services on T day or whatever it is, let me just pull it up so I can actually say it correctly. Yeah so on Trans Day, I guess it’s called, they published an article on hhs. Dot gov talking about how D transition is child abuse that’s the summary, my summary of their article. When you talk about attacks, how would you describe some of the attacks that you have seen, whether it’s an article by hhs. Dot gov saying the opposite of what’s true? Or maybe it’s more attacks on like cancellation or you know, verbal or electronic communications attacks. What kind of attacks have you guys experienced?
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah, we, I mean we’ve always kind of been in the crosshairs because of our viewpoints on life, as you know, we’re in here with good friends. And this issue in particular though there is a ideology component of the transgender movement that you know is resistant to civil discord and facts and so you know, we have called for our other professional organizations, you know the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Endocrine Society and we’ve called on them to just simply have a dialogue and to address these facts. And so you know, even at the professional level we’re dismissed as fringe and not based in facts and we get called awful names. And you know that’s what happens though when they when they can’t debate us, when they can’t stand up against the facts, they start name calling and doing all those sorts of things. And that’s, you know, that’s our professional colleagues in medicine doing this and you know we do the media, mainstream media, we get a lot of pushback also. And so it’s definitely an uphill battle but as I’ve told many people, we shouldn’t despair because there is a huge silent majority, I would say, of people out there, even physicians, who do not believe that this is settled science, that they do not believe that these treatments are the right thing to do. But they are so afraid of the pushback, like they see us get and that they’ve probably experienced that many just keep their, you know, keep quiet and, you know, don’t want to get in trouble or worse lose their livelihood or you know worse, have their family or themselves attacked. I get many calls from our members or for other from others saying, you know, i’d love to do more but i can’t my institution would reprimand me for speaking against their policies even though I disagree with them. You know, and we’ve had members that have gotten even fired from their institutions or reprimanded. And so it’s it is, it is difficult to speak out but as you know, there’s no other option. If you know when you see this, when you hear about the harms that are happening to children, you can’t. You can’t not say anything.
Jacob Barr :
So I’ve got a couple of questions to follow up with, but I’d like to start off with the name. So with the name of the website being Biological integrity, that seems to be a much more positive and healthier name than D transition. Can you speak to maybe how that name was picked or do you know the back story of the, you know of this, you know of the conversation to pick that name?
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah, well, first of all children are born in the right body. There is no such thing as a child being born in the wrong body, which is what the transgender ideology claims, that there are individuals that externally or their chromosomes will be male or female, but really they’re the opposite and so we have to do these harsh, harmful medical information treatments for the rest of their lives to try to, you know, make them who they really are, which is just, that’s just ridiculous, just listening to that. So we believe that biological integrity means that a person we should, we should work to help people align their physical, their mental, emotional, all that to the person that they are and so if children are struggling with gender dysphoria, which is the diagnosis for children who don’t feel comfortable in the body or with the sex that they were born as. So if that’s occurring, we know from research that a very high percentage of those children have underlying mental health disorders. You know about one fourth or more have autism or autism spectrum disorders. A large percentage have suffered childhood events such as abuse, neglect. And so there are underlying reasons that could lead a child to be afraid of you know, being the sex that they are And it’s important that we look into that. And As for any child experiencing distress anxiety, you know, especially suicide thoughts, you have to address those issues first before you address anything else. And if you do that, if you support a child through natural puberty, we know before all these treatments started that 95 % of up to 95 % of children the statistics vary between 88 and 95 % of children will go through puberty and feel comfortable with the sex that they were, that they are. And so to try to, you know, follow these children down this path of I’m born in the wrong body, I want to be the opposite sex when the vast majority of them would feel comfortable. This would resolve on its own to medicalize them and have them, you know, become lifelong patients to suffer harmful side effects of these hormones and the surgeries. It’s just unfathomable that we would even go down that path.
Jacob Barr :
So, OK, so. I think we published should define the different attacks on children through this methodology and I you know these ideas. So when do you think it starts do you think it starts when they’re five to seven maybe like in their education And then the hormones, the hormone blocks of hormone ads, maybe you start pre puberty in puberty. How would you define these different areas that are leading up to this? And also I guess the other question might be, is, do you think the social media that this T as in LGBT, this T is part of a social media contagion as well as maybe being propagated by education at the earlier age groups in like a public school environment or do you even yeah what are your thoughts on that?
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah, well, as a paediatrician and as a parent or anyone who’s spent time with children, you know that kids have this very fantastical view of the world. That’s just how their brain develops that’s normal. And children are exploring who they are, trying to figure out who they are, trying on different, you know, things they want to be an astronaut or, you know, they want to be a dinosaur i mean, this is just who children are and so from a very young age, you know, when children do that, you have to treat them like children. You know, sometimes you know, you go with their imagination. It’s part of the nurture. But you know, on issues of sex, you know, those are those are things that children learn through society, through our culture of, you know, some of the norms or what it means to be a boy or girl it’s not stereotyping them in one way or the other, but as adults, as parents, we guide them in their development that’s what we do for everything. And so, you know, with this, with this transgender ideology, to say that when a four year old or even younger I’ve heard comes to you and says, you know, they think that they’re the opposite sex and to take their word for that is just ridiculous. And so you know that just developmentally speaking, we need to treat children as children they’re not small adults we have to appreciate their developing mind and nurture it and respect it. But also you know make sure we’re not you know they’re children and they’re under our care for a reason we don’t just turn them out to the world they need to be supervised so you know at a very young age it starts, you know at the home and just how we treat young children And then as they get older in schools. I, you know I we have concerns There’s a lot of curriculum in schools that are exposing kids to this notion the transgender ideology you know that gosh, you could be a boy or you could be a girl and that’s so confusing to kids and we’re confusing them and so they’re hearing it at school and they’re being exposed to it and it’s actually it can be harmful. We know that in the same way, you know, that exposing kids to, you know, pornography or even just basic biology too young, they just can’t comprehend it and so it’s it can do more harm to kids when they can’t understand something. They have to sort of, you know, work with that in their mind and they’re just not developmentally ready to handle a lot of things so school curriculum is very important that it’s developmentally appropriate and we there are some curricula that do that. Unfortunately though there are a lot of schools out there that you know are pushing something that’s not healthy for children and then you nailed it with the social media. I mean that what children are exposed to on social media is can be very harmful for kids and especially, you know, the teenagers and preteens this is the time when brain development is just rapid and it’s, you know, the brain is surrounded by hormones and you know, puberty and you throw in, you know, this bad information on social media and you make children, you know it, They follow the a lot of these people on social media and these groups and you know sort of just get entangled in it and it can be very dangerous.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, and so it sounds, yeah and I know that the school education, at least public school. And then it sounds like also parental influences plus social media. Is impacting these younger children towards a trajectory towards this effectively it’s culture at some levels but really those are the, I would say this the more focused spheres that seem to be influencing can you speak to what a hormone when someone has hormone blocks applied when does that when would, when does a child or a person you know what when would that be applied is that during puberty is that what that looks like?
Dr. Jill Simons :
So the reasoning for the puberty blockers so they are used legitimately for some men. Medical conditions that children have called precocious puberty, where a child will start to have high levels of hormone puberty levels of hormone too young you know as young as four five and six when they should be starting, you know years later. And if that is and that’s a malfunction there’s something that is occurring that puberty is turning on too early. And if we allow that to happen there’s many side effects. Some of them are they will grow too fast too soon and their final height will be much shorter than their peers often or their predicted height. You know, it’s very distressing if children are experiencing, you know, development of, you know, body parts that aren’t meant to develop for a few years. And so there’s just, there’s many complications that can happen and so those puberty blockers have been used to slow or suppress that onset. What they’ve then now been used for with transgender interventions is. Twofold 1-1 They say you know, if you’re questioning your sex and it’s distressing for you to start having these the development of these secondary sex characteristics, we can pause it, give you a little time to think, do you want to be a boy or girl? And that that’s where the first lie comes you can’t pause puberty. You can block these hormones, but you are you are interfering with nature and timing in ways that we can only begin to understand. You know, during puberty there’s more than just the, you know, sexual organs that are maturing, your brain is maturing and that is being bathed with all these hormones and so without that, you know what’s happening to the development of a child’s brain are skeletal structures, muscle structures, All those require these puberty hormones. And so if you block that when it’s supposed to happen and you know, say you even unblock it, those aren’t reversible. Like they are claiming we don’t know what we can get back when you restart puberty years later. And so that’s very harmful the puberty blockers. The other thing I should mention too so is when you block the puberty blockers before a child is able to fully mature they will not develop sperm ova. They will not be able to then have children down the road so if you if you block you know that from happening that process of you know being able to produce mature sperm in the ova and then if you especially then follow that with cross sex hormones so hormones of the opposite sex, that child will not be able to have children they will be infertile and that decision to do that if that’s happening pre pubertal, you know there’s no way that a child can truly be informed as to what that means for them down the road there’s just no way they are competent to make that type of decision.
Jacob Barr :
So I want to talk about the hormone ads, the cross stacks hormone ads, but before we do, can you speak about at what age is someone’s brain fully developed enough to be able to make decisions of that caliber.
Dr. Jill Simons :
So it it’s in the mid twenties you know around twenty five is when that frontal lobe that last part of the brain to develop is fully mature and that’s the part of the brain that is responsible for executive function the big high level decision making, the impulse control really you know having control over those other parts of our brain that are more emotional. And so you know that that’s the part of the brain that needs to make be making these big life decisions. And you know, we’ve thought this for decades, probably centuries anyone who’s watched a teenager, you know that they’re not making the best, you know, executive function decisions. But now we even have functional MRI studies we have just very sophisticated science to show us that this is in fact true, that brain is not fully developed until the mid twenties.
Jacob Barr :
Wow, so let’s go back to the so home run blocks. The earlier they are started, possibly the more damage they you know, well essentially if it’s pre puberty they’re even more damaging. What about cross sex hormone ads? Can you speak about that topic?
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah, you know that. So what the cross hex hormones do is if you’re a female who wants to become a male, you would be taking high doses of testosterone, which is you know the male hormone. If you are a male wanting to be female, you will be taking sometimes testosterone blockers as well as estrogen, those types of things. And we know, and there’s been even recent studies out that show the harmful effects these have on both men and women, their cardiovascular system, you know, a higher risk of strokes, high risk of cardiovascular disease and events. You know, there’s also effects with depression, anxiety, aggression, you know, suicidal thoughts i mean, these are high levels of hormones we’re talking about this is above what a natural male or natural female would be producing that these kids are injecting or taking. And you know, especially with the testosterone, what if you were to take testosterone, either a male or a female, there’s a little bit of a, you know, a euphoric effect or, you know, there’s some, you know, energy there’s some things that you can feel the effects of that maybe temporarily make you feel better. And so you know when kids are starting on that, they’re feeling these effects and then often they are, you know, they’re getting acclimated to them and then they’re increasing the dose, they’re not seeing the effects and so it’s really, it’s playing it it’s playing with pretty dangerous chemicals it’s not just like, you know, taking a Tylenol or something that can wear off i mean it’s really having an effect on your body organs that can have pretty damaging effects.
Jacob Barr :
And what ages do you know? What ages are people most vulnerable or is that being targeted towards children like how would you describe the ages that that’s being used.
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah so we’re we see it. You know when if a child is going through this process it’s I call it like it’s a conveyor belt or a you know, the transgender train and it’s really hard to get off of and there’s even studies that show you know once kids start on puberty blockers, 95 % of them, you know go on to cross sex hormones and down that path so you know that the puberty blockers really, you know, can start at any age but if they’re promoting them often to be started before the development of the secondary sex characteristics. And so those are pretty young and then introducing cross sex hormones, you know, at a time when they should be making, you know, should be having their own hormones and the appropriate hormones. So, you know, during puberty or if these are started later on children or adults, they’re, you know, they’re really given at any age to produce. You know, what you’re doing is you’re producing the effects of these hormones so it’s a it’s really a fake. You know, you’re creating these fake characteristics you know, from the hormones you’re making your body, you know, try to try to look like something it’s not by giving it these hormones so they’re done at any age but if a child has started young, I mean that’s the course they could they could go on where they’re blocked and then they’re put on opposite hormones you know what, around their natural puberty so that’s teen years, you know, early teens.
Jacob Barr :
And then when it comes to hormone blocks and hormone ads are those being is that like a lifetime subscription at some levels when it comes to like? You know, they start in their teens perhaps or early, you know, in their pre puberty and puberty ages. But does that actually continue on or and then the same question would be for the surgeries when does that start and then does that continue? How many surgeries would someone have in this, you know, conveyor belt experience?
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah, these are good questions because people don’t think this through i think people initially, when they hear about these transgender interventions, if they’re not very knowledgeable, they think, oh, what harm could it do you know, you’re just blocking puberty for little bits or you’re doing a little bit of hormones. But that’s you have to think, what’s the end game? And so if you start someone on this path, if you say are a biological female and you and you want to look like a male, you will always need hormones to do that for you. There will be no point where you will be a male and your body produces those hormones so the minute you stop, your body is going back to its natural state. It’s trying to, you know, produce those female hormones. And so you have medicalized someone, you have they are they need to take those hormones for the rest of their lives if they are going to be maintaining that outward appearance. And then the surgeries, I mean that’s even more devastating so you are taking healthy body parts and you know removing them or manipulating them in a way that they were not intended to be. And I know as a doctor, all of us know when you the body is trying to heal itself constantly and so if you try to change it, it’s going to try to go back to its natural state. And you know that. So you’re you often, you hear horrible stories from D transitioners or people who’ve gone through this experience and you know either change their mind or just, you know, they’re in the midst of it can be horribly painful infections, you know, repeat surgeries, reconstructions, You know, you really medicalize this person you know maimed their healthy body and not made them the best they could be. And you know, so you asked how young the surgery start and you know, they a lot of places claim that they don’t do surgery on minors but there are, there’s evidence, there’s facts even from the institutions themselves that will do these surgeries on minors. You know, double mastectomy is, you know, on girls at 16. There’s many stories of that even younger. And so again, you know, again, you’re working with a teenage brain that is not competent to make this sort of decision, this sort of informed consent.
Jacob Barr :
Wow how would you classify that kind of surgery? I mean it’s somewhat elective but how would you classify it completely when it comes to someone doing this and I well and really is it the child making this decision or is it the adults in the room pushing a child towards this decision.
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah i mean no child makes this decision alone. There are, you know, I this is where, you know, my anger is with my fellow physicians that are that are doing this to children who should know better, who should know that this is harmful, that this is not what we took an oath to do as doctors. And so you know, they are they are the ones that are really, you know as doctors you are supposed to tell your patient tell their families the risks and the benefits and so they’re not, they’re not disclosing that completely to the patient and the families. And you know, I don’t you know what some parents may be you know, the ones pushing it i think a lot of times they are doing it out of fear because the doctors have told them if you don’t affirm, which is really you know, you’re not affirming your child’s natural body. But if you don’t agree with your child and if you don’t agree to change them to the opposite sex, then they’re going to commit suicide that’s the biggest line you hear. And that just puts fear in any parent and they will do anything to save their child. And so they’re told if you don’t do you know these hormones or this surgery, if you don’t affirm your child, then you’re, you know, your child’s going to commit suicide that’s what the facts they try to say that this is what the facts show when it’s completely false. And you know, so they will say what you know. If their son wants to become a girl, you know, would you rather have a dead son or a daughter, you know, a live daughter i mean that’s just, it’s just really scary and so parents, i don’t blame parents when they’re put in this position and they’ve been told this by people that they should be trusting, you know, that they’re down this path and part of the Biological Integrity Initiative is to get this information out to parents. You know, our website was meant so that there’s sections for parents, even for teens, as well As for physicians and policy makers but you could go on there and you can read this information that’s, you know, it’s common sense, but it gives you the research to back it up and you know then to be able to find the strength to say no let’s you know, let’s look into this isn’t the right thing. There’s other options. There’s a better way to help my child?
Jacob Barr :
So when it comes to like this, you know this voice. That you’re you know American College of Pediatricians has on this and your group. How much of this feels like you’re going up against Goliath? Like when it comes to you know you know the funding the dot gov the you know these it’s cut out. Sorry oh sorry about that.
Dr. Jill Simons :
How much, how much of this feels like you’re going up against Goliath, you know, every day. But i really, I’m honestly not discouraged because I don’t care if it was 10 Goliath like you just have to say the truth like there’s it doesn’t change my mind i don’t care if you know you know what other people say and I’ve got you know we’ve got good people smart people working on this that agree and the science is there the evidence is behind us so we have truth on our side. So i’m not discouraged at all.
Jacob Barr :
So when it comes to pricey clinics, what do you I believe they need a place to refer for where someone can get biblical sound, biblical based counseling or? Biblically based psychological services for when someone needs help in one of these scenarios of you know of a tea maybe needing to go back to their, you know, needing biological integrity and really in who they are. More so than who, they have been lied about in the false beliefs that surround their confusion when it comes to pregnancy clinics, having a place to refer for a counselor or a psychologist. What advice or insight might you have when it comes to your, you know, the biological integrity site than your group?
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah, I, you know, when you first brought this up about, you know, getting pregnancy centers in the loop on this transgender issue, I thought that was very forward thinking, very insightful, very smart, because Planned Parenthood and the other side has jumped on this transgender train i mean, they are dishing out these hormones. And so it’s like we talked about, you know, at the start of this, these issues, the life issue, abortion, the transgender issue, protecting biological integrity, those issues are more intertwined than I think many people realize and so often when kids are, you know, searching for help, they’re going to, regardless of what it is, you know, they’re sort of associating, whether it’s Planned Parenthood or pregnancy centers, with a place to help them with these issues of sexuality, reproduction, life, you know, it really that connection I think, is one that many people make and i don’t really know how well these pregnancy centers are set up to deal with this and I think we would miss a lot of opportunities to help people who are looking for help and looking for information. The best place to start for kids who are in this realm of, you know, gender dysphoria or caught up somehow in the transgender etiology, The best resources, a resource is a good counselor and you know the American College of Pediatricians we’re not a religious based group, but many of our members are, you know, religious and we work with a lot of religious organizations. So we do have a referrals on the biological integrity website that people can go to search out good therapists, good counselors and many of them are religious based counselors. And I you know I just I think speaking from if I, you know as a non religious, I am a religious person but as a non religious person looking at this, you know, these counselors are set up to look at the whole person, you know that’s what they do and that’s really what these kids need, mind, body, spirit. And so I think that’s why they do such a good job regardless of the faith and you know if you want to take that out of the equation, you know regardless of that I think they just they are looking at the whole child. But I, you know, speaking personally, I think that religion plays a big role because it’s this respect for your body and who you are and you know family and community supporting that so it’s it. There are studies that show that kids who do have a religious, you know, who have a faith or who have a family that can support them do better with this and so I would encourage the pregnancy resource centers to, you know, look at our website, use those resources and it will connect you to their own websites and you can use their tools to find a therapist or counselor in your area and that’s the best place to start.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah i would say I’ve got a vision for pricey clinics having a place to refer to that would that would provide biological integrity or essentially help someone D transition from T back to heterosexual slash normal and then also I’m hoping that someone would have that within. Seven months. But you know, right, essentially from now, within seven months, every clinic would have a place to refer to. And then looking past that, I think within like 17 to 19 months, I’m really hoping that some crazy clinics start having someone in house if the need grows for their clinic that they might consider bringing someone on board to support their clinic and neighboring sister clinics when it comes to referrals. And then I was I’ve got a question for you so when it comes to having a place to refer to what are and this might be outside your scope of your experience but and it’s and that’s OK if you don’t feel comfortable answering it but what are your thoughts on asking a church who would provide non professional counseling to help when it comes to this type of counseling and being able to evaluate a church might who may be equipped.
Dr. Jill Simons :
Even though it may not be a professional association for a Presley clinic to refer someone to a church for more biblically sound but yet be not professional counseling in this area, i definitely think it can help support the system. I will say on the other side of this when you have children who are going through gender dysphoria, the other side will make the claim that you know teachers, school counselors, they can go talk to their teachers, school counselor, when true gender dysphoria requires a psychologist or psychiatrist with the most advanced training i mean this is, this is a really tough issue to deal with and you and you need someone who is very experienced in it. And what’s happening is we are getting, you know, people who are not qualified to children are going to people who are not qualified you know, teachers, guidance counselors, you know, people who are not certified in you know, therapy for children and this level that’s needed so I think it can help support that. I do think though there are truly, you know, those counselors that specialize in this and I and I, you do need someone at that level, even you know, even as a pediatrician I, you know, I can address the medical issues and get them to the right people. But to be able to counsel a child and a family through this really requires someone with skill, you know, to be able to do this right because often, like I said before, there’s underlying mental health issues, other issues that need to be addressed, that need to be brought up.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, I’m just thinking that with a lack of the, you know, of for some people they may not have a counselor in their county or psychologist in their county and I’m just trying to think of like what would they do in that situation as a principle clinic or as parents who are trying to look for someone? Yeah, I’m just trying to think and also when it comes to, you know, the government and maybe some, well, actually let me ask you that when it comes to professional associations, are professionals professional associations following the Goliath of the government and this T push or are some professional associations fight, you know, holding to what’s true even, you know, regardless of false beliefs by a Goliath like. Group trying to push them into submission.
Dr. Jill Simons :
Well, this is, this is what’s truly scary is that not only is the government and these professional organizations not encouraging, you know, counselors to counsel these children, they’re actually threatening anyone who tries to counsel the child, tries to dissuade them from this transgender thinking, which I mean, you can’t even comprehend how counterintuitive that is, how devastating that is and we’ve pushed back actually on you know, regulations that this administration is trying to put in place that prevents, you know, under threat of losing, you know, your license, you know, threat of losing your practice. You know, so we’re trying to protect the very people that are trying to protect children by stopping these regulations so yeah the counselors that are out there, they’re growing. They’re we need to support them and to stand behind them and help protect their, you know, their freedom to practice this and they’re needed more than ever. But they’re not getting discouraged they’re they are pushing back and I think just like with the pediatricians, you know, as more and more people stand out, the people will come out from the shadows you know that silent majority will be able to speak out more so but it can’t come fast enough, right like you said, there’s such a shortage of therapists of counselors. So i do like your idea of, you know, at least having some place for them to go, some place to start and to help families navigate this.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, so the so the back story for my experience, I think I shared well I shared part of this in a previous podcast, but I want to go ahead and sort of recap it so that it can be connected here. So last year there was the A Plug and ACP’s event, and we were my team was there to make record videos of several doctors talking about topics like this. And this was before I knew how it connected. So deeply and you know how well the connection was to Tracy Clinic which is really where I focus my vision and goals in that space and essentially a few weeks or maybe a actually wait I guess it was a few months after that event and I was essentially you know part of the team who was interviewing many doctors with ACP it’s about a wide range of issues, and this was definitely one was talking about the harms of tea in this case. And then essentially a few months later I went. I was doing a research project and this is completely disconnected from the T thought process or that world, but essentially where I went to every abortion clinic website I could to collect keywords. And one of the things that I found when visiting so many abortion clinic websites and Planned Parenthood’s website was just one out of 188 that I went to in this research project. About and then this is not Excel data, this is just me reflecting on what I saw. I would guess about 70 % were offering tea services such as hormone blocks, hormone adds, maybe surgery, probably not surgery but you know essentially some of the you know the less essentially the you know the probably more of the hormone blocks and hormone adds more so than surgery I would estimate. But all that to say is 70 % of the abortion clinics groups, you know. Abortion clinics that we’re providing abortions, we’re also providing hormone blocks and hormone ads and thinking about like what does that mean like, you know, when it comes to you know, their motivation, their thought process, their, you know, maybe it’s because you know, essentially our opposition or the enemy has increased scope of damage. And as Christians, as believers, as people who care about children, as as a pro-life team we might yeah we need to consider we need to increase scope of healing as a response because that’s really what we do is we provide healing and restoration and help to the you know essentially as in response to damage being done and this is. This might be, we might be at the beginning of a brand new large fight that has overlap with the fight that we’ve been in for 50 years or 50 plus years. In some I was talking to 1 leader and I won’t say the name but one leader told me that we need to stay in our lane in response to this information. But a lot of leaders have said they’ve seen the signed and so as a as a movement, we’re not all on the same page, but. I think, I think we’re going to see that this is, I think I think it’s just a reality and I and my first response was I was really hoping this wasn’t going to be in my lane, just to be perfectly blunt because this is not an area that’s this is a hard area to serve, but yet it wasn’t our choice it’s really brought to us based on our opposition, increasing scope of damage and we’re in princely clinics are located very often strategically next to the places that are causing this damage. And sidewalk counselors need a place to refer to for when someone is going looking for an abortion they need to be able to say this is a healthier direction. And the same thing with tea services they need, we need, we need to be able to say, oh, here’s a much healthier alternative to that dangerous direction and it feels like a lot of it’s like pulling children out of the street. You know, everyone can agree that walking into the street as a 5 year old is dangerous and really walking into a place that promotes dangerous things. Whoops, sorry, my phone turned that off sorry about that but yeah, essentially this is the same thing we need to be able to say don’t go into that place that’s going to cause damage so I’ve got another question well, let me share this one more story with you. I was talking with a director this last week at the Alliance for Life Missouri conference, and she was sharing how they had their, yeah, they had a client come in, her and her, I guess, boyfriend. And one appeared to be a man and the other appeared to be a woman. But and they’re looking to get a Prancy test. But then it turned out biologically they were the opposite of what they appeared to be. The, you know, essentially the woman actually had chest tear looks very masculine and it turned out she, you know, she was the one who actually needed the Prancy test. What are your thoughts or advice to Prancy clinic directors who may experience this? When they when they may be confronted with a man coming in for a pricey test who appears to be a man but then turns out to be biologically a woman, how would you what?
Dr. Jill Simons :
What advice or thoughts do you have on, you know, providing help to counselors and directors who are experiencing this in the near future, right. I, you know, my physician training. When working in the or wherever you’re working, your first thought is if you’re there to do medical care, if you’re trying to figure out what the best treatment, what the best thing you need to do for this patient, you know, whether it’s urgently or down the road, is you have to stick with the facts you have to stick with biology. You there’s no pretending you know if someone comes in with something you know and you can do it in a respectful way, but it it’s important for us to maintain these basic facts of biology. There’s two sexes. Only one can get pregnant and that’s the one that needs to care. You know, it’s dangerous if you start ignoring those basic facts i mean, you know, it’s like it’s, you know, it’s like the sky is purple kind of a world and so you as the professionals maintain those facts, you know, maintain your integrity, don’t, you know, don’t go down these lies for the sole reason is your job is to do, you know, medical care that is best for that patient so you know, I know there’s a lot of other things that happen at these centers, counseling and all that but when you are addressing it just as a patient, what kind of care do they need? That’s what needs to stay in the forefront. What are the facts here? And you can do that with dignity and you can do that you know that is not hurtful to the patient. But it it’s important for you to be the adult in the room or the grounded, scientifically grounded, medically grounded person in the room because that’s your job, that’s what you’re supposed to do.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, that’s good. And actually i invited that person who had this experience on to this podcast i’ll be doing an interview hopefully in the near future and be able to share her story of how that went and yeah, just sharing that story so other directors can be better equipped and prepared for this new scenario that we’re being faced with or new. You know not to make assumptions and to be more. Yeah, essentially to be more grounded in. Finding out certain answers before just assuming quickly.
Dr. Jill Simons :
Right and we do that with, you know, there’s a lot of other things in medicine. You know, when you’re treating people, you know, just finding out who’s in the room, you know, who are they i mean you have to ask those invasive type questions sometimes as a doctor and it’s uncomfortable. And the other side will make you know, will call you a bigot for asking those questions or call you all sorts of names, but that that’s your job. It’s your job to do that,
Jacob Barr :
So my last question for you, Jill, is where have you seen God’s fingerprints in this work like, how have you seen protection or just incredible, miraculous, you know, things happening when it comes to the work of rescuing and essentially fighting for children to have healthier futures?
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah I where I see it is where I am connected with people that lead to something bigger than myself so even like you Jacob, you know meeting you and your team at that conference and the things that have come from that and your help with you know the videos on our biological integrity site i mean just how all that came together is no accident is no coincidence. And there are people all over that are that are working this and I think that’s where i see it in the people and that’s where we always see God you know he, he, he is in each of us his images is in US and that’s what gives me hope. I, you know I said I’m not I’m optimistic about this. I really AM and it’s when I connect with people like you and you know those people in the pregnancy centers that are trying to do good work and care for people. And so that’s just where I’ve seen it and it’s all over it’s there.
Jacob Barr :
Oh, that’s really good. Would you close out this podcast with a prayer? And then hopefully those who are listening will echo you know the listeners and leaders who are listening will echo and yeah echo this prayer as yeah, so God will hear it many times.
Dr. Jill Simons :
Yeah i just my favorite prayer, it’s i don’t even like to call it a prayer because it’s just so simple but I just, I often throughout the day just ask God to just be with me. Just be with me. And because I don’t I don’t know what I’m necessarily supposed to do. I don’t know what you want me to do i don’t know what the right answer but just be with me get me through this and so that’s kind of you know it’s i just I say that often so just be with me be with us as we’re as we’re doing this work and that’s all I ask and i’m so blessed to be able to be here and interview with people like you Jacob.
Jacob Barr :
So i was at this conference in Missouri this last week and I guess it was this week wow times i’m not even sure what day it is right now. It was it was over the weekend and then through the beginning of this week so and I and I one of my favorite verses has been Philippians four six and seven and it showed up quite a bit at this conference but it showed up and with one was a was a partial rebuke on don’t tell someone. Not to worry with Philippians four six and seven unless you include verse 5 which really connects with your prayer. So verse five is let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near, so that second part really connects with what you’re asking for is God be with me, so the Lord is near. And then verse six says do not be anxious, which is usually where I start. I would say don’t be anxious and then about anything. But in every situation, by prayer and petition, with Thanksgiving, present your request to God. And the peace of God which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. So I usually like to paraphrase it of Don’t be anxious, pray with Thanksgiving while being thankful, and God will protect your heart miraculously like, that’s my paraphrase of how I think about it in my mind and but the part that really connects. Is the Lord is near. And that was the rebuke from the speaker saying don’t tell someone six and seven without including the Lord is near from verse 5 and so I just want to say your yeah, your prayer echoes what I’ve been hearing over the last couple of days.
Dr. Jill Simons :
That’s good he that’s God among us I mean that’s right there. Thank you for sharing that was great.
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