Hear Shawn Zierke and Jacob Barr talk about how pregnacny clinics are postured to become whole women healthcare clinics.
Summary
This is Jacob Barr from the Pro-Life Team Podcast. In our recent episode, I had the opportunity to speak with Shawn Zierke, Vice President of Affiliates for the Guiding Star Project. We delved into the crucial topic of redefining women’s healthcare in pregnancy clinics, especially in the context of a post-Roe world. Shawn shared her extensive experience and insights on how Guiding Star is revolutionizing women’s healthcare through its affiliate organizations across the U.S. She emphasized the importance of understanding and affirming the natural state of women’s bodies and providing comprehensive healthcare that spans from adolescence through post-menopause.
One key point Shawn highlighted was the need to address the early stages of pregnancy, especially in preventing miscarriages through early intervention and support. This approach challenges the standard practice of not seeing women until they are 8-12 weeks pregnant, a critical period where miscarriages are most common. Shawn also pointed out the systemic issues in our healthcare system that create a mistrust of women’s natural bodily functions and the negative impacts of contraception on women’s health.
Shawn further discussed the benefits of pregnancy clinics evolving into more holistic healthcare providers, such as Guiding Star centers, which offer a wide range of services including fertility care, childbirth classes, miscarriage and infant loss support, lactation and breastfeeding support, and even mental health counseling. A unique feature of Guiding Star centers is the provision of child watch areas and mom’s lounges, ensuring a supportive environment for women.
The conversation also touched upon the importance of providing services that target both men and women, emphasizing the role of fathers in preventing abortions and promoting a culture of life. Shawn shared insights on the practical aspects of transitioning to a more comprehensive healthcare model, including dealing with insurance and managing the operational aspects of a medical clinic.
This discussion was a compelling exploration of how pregnancy clinics can expand their scope to offer holistic, life-affirming healthcare, truly meeting the needs of women and families in their communities.
#ProLifeTeamPodcast #JacobBarr #ShawnZierke #GuidingStarProject #WomensHealthcare #PregnancyClinics #HolisticHealthcare #EarlyPregnancyCare #MiscarriagePrevention #LifeAffirmingCare #FertilityCare #BreastfeedingSupport #MentalHealthCounseling #FatherhoodPrograms #MedicalClinicTransition #InsuranceManagement #HealthcareExpansion #CultureOfLife #ComprehensiveCare #CommunityHealthServices
Transcript
The transcript was automatically generated and may contain errors.
Jacob Barr :
Welcome to the pro-life Team Podcast i’m Jacob Barr and I’m here with Sean Zurky and we’re going to be talking about guiding star and pregnancy clinics, redefining or considering the idea of redefining medical services in order to adopt A more whole women’s healthcare model. So Sean, I’m so excited to have you on the podcast again and I’m excited to, yeah, to hear about, well guiding STAR and medical clinics and clinics becoming more medical. Would you introduce yourself for those who may not know you as if you were talking to a small group of Prancy clinic leadership teams?
Shawn Zierke :
Sure so you may have heard me on this podcast in my capacity as the consultant owner with their key Consulting Group, which I still do, but I was also hired as the Vice President of Affiliates for Guiding Star Project. And Guiding Star Project is redefining women’s healthcare and we and how we do that is by through new affiliate organizations across the US We believe that women deserve to understand how their bodies work and pro women’s healthcare clinics affirm women’s bodies in their natural state. And so at Guiding Star, we believe that everyone deserves excellent healthcare. So that is what our aim is i can talk a little bit more about why we’re trying to redefine women’s healthcare, that narrative surrounding it especially in a post row world and how we believe the Guiding Star model does that. Very specifically why we believe the Guiding Star model does that as.
Jacob Barr :
Really good yeah if you could just if you could define or explain your thoughts on redefining women’s healthcare, I would love to hear that.
Shawn Zierke :
So you know, i the first thing I would do is challenge anyone to do a few simple searches online looking at topics like birth control, side effects, birth trauma, postpartum depression, and topics like that it wouldn’t take you long to see what I’m about to expound on. But if you look at those Google results in those areas of birth control side effects, birth trauma, postpartum depression, even maternal fetal mortality rates, then you would see, especially if you look at those with compassion you would see that those stories and those issues are real and the trauma that they’re causing to women is real and that as guiding star is a life affirming organization. We have to really consider what that means. The standard in modern women’s Healthcare is really missing the mark and that’s at the root of it all. It’s outdated it it’s under serving the true needs of women. And honestly, our current healthcare systems created an absolute mistrust of our body’s natural capacities as women. And to me, it’s so clear that what’s being proclaimed as to women as Healthcare is actually what’s harming them. I mean, women are dying in states where abortion has been banned or limited, not because of the overturning of Roe V Wade, but because of high maternal fetal mortality rates i mean, those are very simply caused by increased cesarean rates and low breastfeeding weights rates excuse me i mean, i can keep going, yeah.
Jacob Barr :
So I guess what I’m curious about is what kind of information is someone finding when they search on birth control or postpartum, and what should they be finding when they search on these topics?
Shawn Zierke :
Sure. Well, here’s one that not many people really put together because they thought it was the norm but most women healthcare providers won’t see a woman until she’s at least eight weeks press pregnant. And some won’t actually be able to get in and get an appointment until they’re about 12 weeks along why? Well, 80 % of miscarriages happened in the 1st 12 weeks and for many women, the early months of pregnancy are actually when they need assistance and support they’re filled with tons of questions, their bodies changing, you know, warning sickness. And you know, we should be checking hormonal levels to be certain we’re doing everything we can to help prevent those early miscarriages do they need progesterone intervention? And when you look at the physical and emotional toll that it takes on a woman and her family to even go through a miscarriage, if those things can be avoided by having early intervention, shouldn’t women have that?
Jacob Barr :
Yeah and so and what’s the reasoning for so are you. Well, let me back up are you suggesting that maybe Princey Clinic should offer, you know, our pregnancy clinic should offer help in those earliest weeks so that they can have those answers and have that medical consultation, even if it’s in the earliest weeks, even before 8 weeks.
Shawn Zierke :
Absolutely and if you’re looking at a nurse midwife that is trained in fertility awareness methods such as Creighton, Femme, Marquette or Billings and that also offers progesterone intervention, then yes, even without the progesterone intervention, if they can refer someone to a physician who will offer that when there may be an impending miscarriage that can be reversed, then that’s just good quality healthcare. I mean, it’s having someone walk alongside you, but the reason that it’s not done is because for the two one is that most miscarriages happened during that time and so our healthcare system is set up to not prevent that and walk alongside a woman and help her avoid miscarriage but it actually promotes that promotes miscarriage. Well, let’s just let them miscarry and then we’ll actually give them healthcare if it’s a good pregnancy that’s made it this far, because then insurance will pay for it after you’ve missed 2 periods. Many years ago, insurance would only pay for one ultrasound for the entire pregnancy. So most women didn’t even get that ultrasound until the anatomy scan they were going to. They weren’t going to waste it on an early one they were going to do that one that was paid for by insurance when they could tell whether you had fetal abnormalities physically. That has, thankfully.
Jacob Barr :
Changed what is? What is the so what is the medical community call it before you know that point where it’s, you know, too young and it might be likely to miscarry and then after that point it’s more likely to carry is like do they call that word viable or what do they call it between those two stages?
Shawn Zierke :
One is just early gestation and in the first trimester, I mean, yeah, the first trimester in the first prior to the 1st 12 weeks being completed, right. Yeah, my brain is counting i was like.
Jacob Barr :
So what do you so how does guiding Star or having a medical clinic become, you know, going under this new definition of redefining women’s healthcare, How does that, you know, impact what kind of care is being provided?
Shawn Zierke :
Well, let’s talk about that. So I gave you a great fact about not seeing women until after they’ve missed 2 periods because of the miscarriage rate and not trying to really prevent that. But if you’re looking at women’s healthcare from adolescents through post menopause, another great fact is the average age of a young woman being put on birth control is 16. But it’s not uncommon for young women to be put on the pill even earlier than that and the moment our cycles start and show any sign of irregularity, which is, by the way, normal and to be expected in the first two years, seeds of doubt are planted in impressionable minds. You know, I find it interesting that 77 % of female teenage students in the US report wanting more in depth education about their menstrual health. And you know, we learn so early on that their body is are messed up and you just can’t trust your body. And that’s a sentiment that’s carried a long time with each of us before we’re ever dealing with the first pregnancy. And so when you then take that feeling about your body being messed up or it’s not normal, not knowing what actually normal is, then you carry that into whether you’re feeling adequately to have a, you know, capable of birthing a baby or breastfeeding a baby or dealing with the postpartum period or just motherhood in general. And if we’re talking about birth control, 30 % of women change their birth control five times over the course of their fertile years. And most of those methods offered to women make us gain weight, lose bone density, increase our risk for breast cancer, affect our mental and emotional state, and honestly ultimately do nothing to treat the issues we’re experiencing when even started the pill for health reasons, women should have access to the most recent data and the most effective natural measures available to help us avoid feeling just disconnected and from our own bodies and so guiding Star clinics. So we have 3 strategies right now if you are a pregnancy center and you are at least a pregnancy health medical clinic, so you have a medical director, you are offering nurse administered pregnancy tests and limited obstetrical ultrasounds, STD testing, at least those types of things. Maybe once in a while you do a well woman exam if you have a nurse practitioner or a volunteer physician come in, then if you are really wanting to take the next leap into Women’s Health, the natural next step in our mind is to become a guiding star center with this model where you offer fertility care like I referenced before Creighton Femme, Marquette or Billings, even Creighton Macro, it’s available with the surgical options progesterone supplementation, which means that you can also offer abortion pill reversal because progesterone supplementation is the main treatment in abortion pill reversal. And so then having life affirming OBGY, NS or family medicine providers in your clinic, maybe you’re offering childbirth classes. Let’s see, miscarriage and infant loss support would be another offering providing at least early prenatal care through the 1st 20 weeks of pregnancy and partnering with the pro-life OB in your community doing well woman exams, pap smears and other STD testing of course, Maybe you offer miscarriage kits, perinatal Hospice and infant loss support options, counseling of course you’re already offering in your pregnancy center, so it’s a nice fit. And then you go into the lactation support, breastfeeding support activities, a baby weigh station so they can weigh their baby before and after they get coaching and lactation support. A space to provide that. Having maybe a certified lactation consultant on site, of course. Breastfeeding classes. We have one of our guiding star centers that has a breast milk bank where they have they freeze the breast milk and it’s a breast milk sharing program offering breastfeeding supplies, doing those postpartum check UPS and of course the very important postpartum depression screening, doula support for birth and postpartum. And then the one signature thing for a guiding star center that is a deal breaker you can have any or all of the services I mentioned before but a deal breaker for our brand is that you must have a drop in child watch area during the day or during the hours that you’re open at a minimum. And then the accompanying or adjacent moms nap or lounge room in the same building. So moms can safely bring their babies for two to three hours or children up to age 2 think it is maybe it’s maybe it goes higher actually in some of our centers. But then if they are single parent and need a break, they can come in, take a break, have someone trusted watch their child, maybe they have a class they need to attend or a doctor’s appointment there in the building. Then they so long as they stay in the building then the child watch area is for them. And then of course all the material systems you see at pregnancy centers we have. And then we have a couple of clinics that have neat ancillary services like on site, emotional counseling, mental health counseling services, adoption counseling, parenting classes, relationship classes at a variety of classes from car seat safety training to hormone Wellness and fertility money management and so on so a lot of the same things that you would see in a pregnancy center, but we’re adding on that total women’s healthcare piece.
Jacob Barr :
Wow and I really like the drop in child deal breaker piece cuz that’s what a relief to sort of just give someone like that. Yeah, just that space to rest or to be able to go to a class without having to line up childcare like that just feels like such an amazing offering and service.
Shawn Zierke :
What about? What does it normally all?
Jacob Barr :
Drop in I.
Shawn Zierke :
Was just going to say, what about all the women that risk for postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis that actually their child gets saved and so does the mom in that moment just to have a break?
Jacob Barr :
So these are a lot of services. Does Guiding Star promote grant writing or charging for services to that to the Medicare or some kind of there’s some kind of like funding source for providing these additional services?
Shawn Zierke :
So each of our current 8 affiliates have different revenue structures. Some of them chart everything in Athena and they bill Medicaid and private insurance and some of them are all charity cares. We have another that is they offer free or charity care sliding scale for self pay based on income and they accept insurances. So basically no one has turned away i mean, these are all nonprofit health centers and so they would all offer free services at a foundation. But many of many states with expanded Medicaid in particular, especially when you’re dealing with moms with babies so even if they may not have qualified for Medicaid before now, if they’re pregnant, then they do and so they’re insured. And so you’re if you’re a medical clinic offering medical services to someone who is insured, then you’re leaving money on the table by not accepting insurances, just like you’re referring. So a lot of people push back and say, oh, I don’t want the government and I don’t want to accept government money, But I always ask pregnancy centers, are you referring your women to pro-life OBGYN? Well, yes, of course. Then they accept Medicaid and private insurance. Are they telling them not to practice as pro-life OBGY NS well, no. Ok so then why would that be different for you?
Jacob Barr :
That’s a good point yeah. So what are? Are there any drawbacks from charging for services like what you know are there any negative to that scenario?
Shawn Zierke :
I haven’t seen any in any of the clinics except that they have fee for service revenue. I have helped, for example, here in Florida for clinics that offer charity care, so free services and they also bill insurance. They’ve added a clause in the Florida Pregnancy Center Network contract to reference double dipping. So you can’t do contracted free services that the Florida Pregnancy Center Network and the grant that comes from the state covers. It has to be patients that are uninsured if you accept.
Jacob Barr :
It OK. And I have heard that, you know, there’s some government grants that do come with like requirements well and well, you know, charging for services rendered seems to be does not come with that same kind of, you know, requirements is that true or what are your thoughts on like?
Shawn Zierke :
So there are many grants. There are many grants out there that have very specific parameters. And as I advise all of the people that I do grant writing consulting for, if you cannot meet those parameters, do not apply for that grant.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah and then it seems like the, you know, getting rent, having compensation for services. It seems to be based on the fact you’re providing services more so than on outside requirements it seems like that’s the gist. And so there it’s, yeah, it seems like it’s very different to get compensated for services rendered to the community compared to, yeah, the grant that would have those requirements that may not be compatible with an with an organization.
Shawn Zierke :
Well, so we have one of our guiding star centers in Iowa who’s applying for a federal grant right now and that specifically addresses the Hispanic community and maternal fetal mortality. And she’s using lactation and doula services to intervene specifically in that community to their service area. And there are no restrictions that would compromise their practice philosophy. So they’re able to be who they are and life affirming and are not required to offer any services that would violate that belief and practice.
Jacob Barr :
So going back to the i guess the reason, the reasons for becoming more medical or you know, trying to redefine women’s healthcare, What are the driving reasons that would make it so that you’re able to better reach, you know, a pricing clinic could better reach their mission by having these extended services or new services?
Shawn Zierke :
So OK, I’ll give you a great example. Planned Parenthood does sex Ed in the high school right. So what we already know that it is skewed and the values on which that sex Ed is based is not in alignment with what we each believe morally or ethically right. And so, but what they’re doing by being in the schools is that when those kids that are involved in sexual activity and they think they might have an STD or that they might be pregnant, where are they going to go? They’re going to go to Planned Parenthood clinic. So if you’re offering services that span from adolescents through post menopause, then you now are creating a relationship with these women in their community before they’re ever in crisis. So that when they’re in crisis, you or who they come to because they already have a relationship with you.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense essentially awareness like it’s awareness building so that you’re not just you know unknown, you’re becoming, you’re building relationship by providing services. It also seems to have like a funding essentially by, you know, getting funding for services rendered and extending those services, it seems like you’re yeah, the viability of the organization seems to be strengthened, especially if it’s supporting serving the right client base with better awareness so that people are coming to a familiar group more so than a new.
Shawn Zierke :
Group, right. So think about I have a client right now who they are pregnancy help medical clinic they have a mobile unit as well and they are adding in a 28 week men’s program and hiring a man to run it. And they are seeking grant funding to at least help support it, a half of it for the first year. And in doing so, they’re addressing one of the root issues. So you think, OK, why is a pregnancy center doing a men’s program? But many people don’t realize that dads are the key to preventing abortion. They, I mean if you look at the four main reasons a woman cites for saying that they need an abortion, they’re related in some way to the man in their life or the lack thereof or the lack of income from a two parent household if it’s related to income issues. So by having a men’s program, for example, fatherhood program, then you are directly addressing the abortion issue from the father side in your community so guiding star, there are two, three guiding star centers that have the intro to manhood program. So they’re just like they have an intro to womanhood program and so they’re reaching teen boys early on in high school and talking to about intro to manhood and then these other programs they do them obviously after they’re already in crisis, but they’re teaching them about money management and how to get a job and how to be a father in all gospel aligned structure instruction. I know the one group is using Bright Course in 28 of their modules combined for their men’s program.
Jacob Barr :
Ok. And it seems like, yeah, reaching our audience whether it be months or years before they would need us hopefully with the intent that they won’t have an unplanned pregnancy is yeah like that if I feel like that’s sort of the result is that we’re well, the benefit might be that we’re increasing the culture of life or promoting the culture. You know, promoting the culture of life mindset and then also yeah. Of helping people avoid unplanned pregnancies by well or we’re really avoiding abortion even more so than that perhaps even. And then providing that yeah care essentially whole care, you know going further back and further forward to essentially cover the client with the care.
Shawn Zierke :
Needed yeah, I mean, women from adolescence through post menopause need to know that they’re not broken. They need to know that they deserve great healthcare and they need to be affirmed and how their bodies are functioning and a guiding star center that is the culture around which it’s been created. So whatever support you need at whatever stage in your life, that’s where the guiding star center comes in. And we’re hoping that pregnancy centers want to evolve to that. Because think about it, if there’s thirty seven hundred pregnancy centers and twenty five percent % are medical and they’re ready to take the next level to a full women’s healthcare clinic, now we have outnumbered all the planned period clinics across the US with actual women’s healthcare.
Jacob Barr :
So speaking, so this one might be a harder question to answer and we can skip it if it is but so Planned Parenthood has focused on like the sex type of words when it comes to their content on their website and Google like they like, that’s actually one of their main phrases is sex and related words. Do you think that, I mean what are your thoughts on a pregnancy clinic having targeting those type of words in some way with content? What are your what’s your initial?
Shawn Zierke :
Thought on that, so if you’re if you want to capture what people are searching and redirect them to your site so that they can get real answers, that’s just using a good SCO. But when they come to you do not want to mislead or deceive them. There’s organizations out there that I could name, but I won’t but they are getting millions of dollars from state governments in order to run call centers with SC OS that direct people to their call center and then they think they’re getting an abortion. And instead of Full disclosure at some point in the conversation, they don’t disclose at all that they’re not referring or providing abortion. They let them believe that they are. And that is only fueling the fake clinic argument of. You know, the Elizabeth Warren types out there. And the, you know the Mother Jones article that just came out where Leah Jacobson the CEO of Guiding Star was interviewed and accused that of us of not having a real medical clinics, which is not true we have real medical clinics.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah well it just seems like the, you know, the Presti clinics and you know Presti clinics and clinics that have moral fortitude would we essentially could promote sexual you know, healthy sexual decisions let such as having, you know health a healthy sex life within marriage having, you know the instead of having it, you know plagued with STIs and risk and worry and outcomes that are undesirable. I just feel like, but we haven’t competed on those words as of yet i feel like those words are, yeah, we’re not competing in that space, but that could happen someday, I’m not sure.
Shawn Zierke :
When that’s just being the answer where that people need that they didn’t know they needed. So if you know that those search words are coming up, but you have answers that they’re not going to find from Planned Parenthood, then you can capture those search words, right? You do that. That’s what you do with Eye Rapture.
Jacob Barr :
Yes. Your work is, it’s a matter of having content and having it aligned with, yeah, who clinics are and who clinics are is obviously, as you’re pointing out is shifting it’s you know, it’s growing it’s changing and yeah, and the idea of redefining whole Women’s Health is a perfect example of how on how, yeah, how our services are changing. And you know, I mean more inclusive to include include our audience at an earlier stage. And I think it’s similar to doing like STI testing where we’re trying to reach someone before they have the unplanned pregnancy by engaging with them and building up the allegationship i think these other services make a lot of sense for us to be engaging. Yeah, the women clients in a more holistic approach and reaching them during these important years before they might be at risk of having an unplanned pregnancy and hopefully helping them might divert or you know, escape that pathway.
Shawn Zierke :
And make it planned. Put them in control of their bodies.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, and not to say that an unplanned pregnancy, I mean, you know, i personally think unplanned pregnancies is sometimes God’s way of saying it’s time and so.
Shawn Zierke :
He decides.
Jacob Barr :
Like a positive reaction to an unplanned pregnancy is part of that culture of life? Yeah, posture that could that could be.
Shawn Zierke :
Had well, I mean, and back to your point about STD’s I mean the person with an unplanned pregnancy has a potential to have two to three STD’s as well, just because of their sexual risk factors involved in even becoming pregnant before they had planned to.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah and so having yeah that next that combination of services makes a lot of sense and so with this so if a if a principle clinic has STI testing, they have the ultrasound services and they have they’re you know they have some parenting classes, what would it look like for them to contact contact, guiding star in order to try and consider adding additional layers of medical services. Would they be, you know, what’s that normally look like for that scenario?
Shawn Zierke :
So we have. So our affiliates either become guiding star and their local area or they are their current name. And then under that it’s a guiding star affiliate. And in doing that, it’s a complete package of onboarding as far as converting to our brand. So I hate to use this, but most people know what McDonald’s is and that they have a brand and you have franchises and so it’s very similar that way. It’s just a lot easier when you’re already a pregnancy out medical clinic because a lot of the infrastructure is already in place. We have people that want a guiding star center and they start it from nothing. They come under our 5O1C3 become their own entity with their own board of directors we help them with initial fundraising and everything to start a non profit from filing their incorporation papers in their state and getting their EIN to their policies and procedures and bylaws and board training and the floor plan and layout and color scheme and everything for their clinic building and job descriptions how to interview. Even we use the EOS system for the entrepreneurial operating system have you heard of it?
Jacob Barr :
I have i have not heard of that before. What is the EOS so?
Shawn Zierke :
This is Get a Grip And Then Traction is the other book right here for the EOS system and Gino Wickham Wickman wickman is the author and it’s very it’s kind of a mash up of all the best management systems for your business. It’s very similar if they pull a lot from Patrick Lancioni he’s blessed it who does the advantage and because I am used to the advantage, it was very easy to transition to EOS. But when you are an entrepreneur or serial entrepreneur like I am and in the role I met in with Guiding Star, it’s very helpful for moving a business forward quickly and effectively. And so we teach them all the EOS management, how to have effective meetings and set goals and move your organization forward in a in a very quick pace. We are currently working on a Learning Management System platform that all of our affiliates and twinkles or new affiliates as we call them, will walk through the entire affiliation process on it. The organization we want to work with currently hosts my Catholic Doctor in Boma, USA as well and so we want to be able to have a reproducible scalable model available in one place i believe we have a reproducible scalable model currently, but it’s not laid out on an LMS system, which would certainly make it so much easier for everyone so that’s what we’re working towards.
Jacob Barr :
Ok so essentially if whether or not they keep their own brand and add the tagline or they adopt the guiding Star brand, they would end up with their own they’re going to continue to have an their unique EIN or five oh one C three and then they would be responsible for their own funding or accounting, but they would have the shared marketing, the shared front end through the franchise model with their affiliate fees.
Shawn Zierke :
The affiliate fees they paste, they pay, then they end up with the entire system and process and programs and resources.
Jacob Barr :
Ok. And then when it comes to bringing in all, you know, onboarding all these new services, I’m assuming that’s done in intelligent, reasonable way that’s, you know, not overwhelming.
Shawn Zierke :
Yes. Well, so the individuals that are usually the twinkles that want to start their guiding star clinic from scratch are we’re finding our doulas or their fertility specialists or lactation consultants. So they’re already working in many of these areas nurse midwives, sorry, we have two nurse midwives. And so they want to open a birth center, but they want the full Guiding Star Women’s Health clinic with their birth center. And so that’s the one that we are working towards in Tampa right now with Tammy Masut as their director and she’s a nurse midwife.
Jacob Barr :
Interesting, yeah. And I can imagine like a non medical pregnancy center who often refers someone to get the ultrasound at a pro-life medical clinic. I can imagine a group like that enjoying finding a guiding star type of medical clinic that’s more full service or whole Women’s Health and something of you know of that caliber or nature so that it’s yeah, but you know because in the end pro the pro-life key is the primary factor but then a secondary factor might be which services are being provided and that would so.
Shawn Zierke :
Our clinic in Wakota has an in house naturopath for kind of their in house pharmacy. They also have mental health counseling in house and a chiropractor and so they their add on services for women really do support the whole person.
Jacob Barr :
Ok, so who’s an ideal candidate for someone who, you know, might be poised to redefine how they’re doing, medical and growing to be more of a full medical whole Women’s Health?
Shawn Zierke :
So we currently have 3 strategies in our expansion plan the 1st is to recruit current pregnancy help medical clinics that are offering at least limited obstetrical ultrasound, pregnancy tests and STD testing and that have medical director. And we’re really would love to see a lot of those we’ll take them wherever they’re ready but we would like to see them in the states where maternal fetal mortality rates are high because we believe this model will bring those rates down. And those are in the Southeast area in the majority of those states are also ones that have banned abortion or limited access to abortion post row. And then of course our next strategy is to look for physicians and allied medical professionals who share our vision for redefining women’s healthcare by practicing medicine in a guiding star center in their state. So we are so we’re recruiting physicians and mid level providers and then of course anyone who’s interested we they’re called twinkles and we accept applications from individuals interested throughout the country who can see the benefit of a guiding star center in their community and we will add them as they come currently we have multiple people interested, but three that are being actively moved towards opening that fall into that third strategy.
Jacob Barr :
What is, what is one of the bigger steps that sometimes people have to that might you know what’s are there any like hurdles for like you know going more medical or what’s one of the bigger steps they have to try and fully accept in order to get past you know, in order to work past it like you know for example going from a non Medical Center for a limited medical that’s not under HIPAA to going whole Women’s Health and this sounds like this would be more especially with the billing component this would be more under HIPAA and or things like that what’s one of the bigger pieces that someone might have to like get past?
Shawn Zierke :
So while clinics, yeah, well, clinics in certain categories don’t necessarily fall under HIPAA, my advice is that they should all operate as if they do. But that said, I think that the biggest issue at least for pregnancy centers that are not medical, there’s a reason that they’re not medical yet because pregnancy help counseling centers or pregnancy resource centers have been around a very long time and the opportunity to convert to medical has been around at a minimum 1718 years. And pregnancy centers ability to change with that over time has been very slow. And why I think that there are organizations out there advising pregnancy centers and scaring them honestly in and unfortunately if we succumb to fear and stop trusting God with the mission that he’s given us, then the enemy has won. And there’s a way to be risk averse and follow best practices for medical clinics and still be pro-life and life affirming and on mission and sharing the gospel and still be a medical clinic. And so the greatest challenge is change management. That’s the bottom line to answer your question, it’s bringing people along, encouraging them to overcome the fear that’s been instilled in them, the fear being sued, the fear being shut down. And when you succumb to fear, then you’re no longer trusting God as the leader of your organization and your ministry.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, I yeah and there’s a lot of false beliefs that yeah, they’re the false belief the goal of the false belief is to, yeah, essentially derail or cause fear stopping. Yeah, stopping.
Shawn Zierke :
Slowing down forward progress, yes.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah. So being that you have a lot of experiencing with grants and you’re on the guiding star team, are there any grant services that are like packaged in this franchise model?
Shawn Zierke :
So all of my consulting services, all of my consulting services, along with an entire menu of consultants, whether they be in professional coaching or disk, or we have an entire consulting menu but I have been added to it with all my services for our affiliates coming in to our organization. Yes, they received my services. So I I’ve been coaching and then I I’ve coached speeches for a gala in the last week i’ve helped with unemployment, I’ve helped with federal grant and I’ve helped with a local foundation grant along with our affiliates in this the last week triple HC accreditation i’m also helping with one of our clinics moving towards triple HC accreditation.
Jacob Barr :
And what is true is that he define what that is.
Shawn Zierke :
Yes, I’ll give you the exact words.
Jacob Barr :
Or like or yeah, what the?
Shawn Zierke :
Accreditation Association for Ambulatory Healthcare Why would somebody want a triple HC accreditation because if you are in an area where you are being attacked as a, quote, fake clinic, and you have a medical director and you’re offering limited medical services, you are a clinic, you just limit the services you’re offering. But a triple HC accreditation does multiple things. One of them is to give you a shield of protection of legitimacy, for one. And two, honestly, the best practices in required to even become accredited help allay those fears that some of these organizations are trying to tell pregnancy centers that they should be scared of being sued and all you know they’re not doing things right. If you achieve accreditation, you’re doing something right. You have policies and procedures in place that you’re following and documenting that protect you and your employees and your board, protect you from piercing the corporate veil, protect you from medical negligence and other mistakes because you’re following your procedures. And then the third thing that accreditation offers is and requires in order to have it is a quality improvement plan and that’s new to a lot of pregnancy centers to add in a quality improvement plan, but it’s normal in high functioning ambulatory health clinics. And so it just makes you better, stronger. And if you have a quality improvement plan, then you’re measuring outcomes in patient data and service in a variety of domains. And so when you go to apply for those grants, you’ve already got the data of how effective you are.
Jacob Barr :
So is that accreditation is that part of like the one of the requirements?
Shawn Zierke :
Of not at all achieving, not at all. It’s just the next level and we have one of our clinics wants to go to that next level. Their medical director is on the board of Aplog and this is important to her.
Jacob Barr :
Ok, awesome so I guess trying to think of what other questions to ask, how do you see God working through this, You know, greater scope of medical services being provided to women and men?
Shawn Zierke :
Teaching women that they’re not broken and that they have support, that they deserve high quality healthcare, I believe is blessed by God. Honestly, it it’s, it is and all of these are based on life affirming biblical principles every one of our services is founded in that. And so people like to separate. Oh, well, you’re a medical clinic, so you can’t be religiously incorporated or have this thread of religion running through things. And you really, in my opinion, you can’t separate them if you’re in a ministry, it should come out of every it should just spill out of your desire to help people every nurse, every receptionist, every counselor, every medical provider. It should just be the essence of who they are so it’s very much in line with what I believe God desires for healthcare to look like.
Jacob Barr :
So if someone’s listening and they’re thinking this sounds like a lot of work or it’s going to cost a lot of money, what might you say to them to, you know, help them consider this idea and how this work is worthwhile and how this idea will also help pay for itself based on services being rendered are then being billed to, you know, like to an insurance.
Shawn Zierke :
So everybody that might be interested may be positioned differently so I would need to talk to them individually, but if they’re already a pregnancy center and they are already offering medical services, then they already know the work involved. I can tell you that the affiliation fees are a drop in the bucket compared to the return on that investment if they’re very small affiliation fees, in fact I don’t think they’re they charge enough but the prices were set before I got here, so but the truth is each organization is in a different place and there are a lot of moving parts And so the best way to figure out where they’re at and if they’re even positioned now or if they need to work towards things over the next year, then I would encourage them to definitely reach out to me at sean@theguidingstarproject.com.org excuse me, Sean at the Guiding Star project.org.
Jacob Barr :
So, yeah, so someone’s thinking this sounds like a lot of work and it’s expensive, but I think I should consider it and i just, you know, it sounds like maybe the right response might be to reach out to you and have that conversation so they can sort of weigh, you know, just sort of weigh the benefits and the opportunity in a way that will. Yeah so something there like it sounds like a very common like a, you know, a conversation that would be shared with the board for them to consider, you know, if this is a direction that we should be going as a pregnancy clinic yeah.
Shawn Zierke :
So we usually, I mean I can tell you the first steps, people say they’re interested, they tell me about their geographic area and that they’d like to learn more i send them an NDA and a philosophy statement that we asked them to sign. Once we get past that portion, then there’s a zoom meeting and we talk about their specific where they’re at, who, what their board is like, where what, why do they want to go to the next level, what plate pieces do they have in place already and what do they need from us. And then I send them an application and I do a site visit and I physically come out and see them And then we review our applications and we you know they know everything upfront what the cost would be. We help them with a pro forma business plan we set up their electronic health records and everything soup the nuts they have to run their new clinic.
Jacob Barr :
Are there are there any other pro-life groups like a guiding star who are helping clinic sort of grow their medical services to this extent like is this Is this a novel or unique idea or are there other groups that are doing something along the same lines perhaps?
Shawn Zierke :
I would say that we’re unique and novel because we offer there are other groups that are trying to rebrand pregnancy centers, but they don’t offer the full extent of comprehensive Women’s Health that Guiding Star does nor and like I said our signature offering at every one of our clinics, it’s a deal breaker you must have is the child watch drop in area and the mom’s nap or lounge room. And so in addition to that, it’s kind of like a pregnancy center on steroids meets a OB, GYN with a doula lactation and fertility clinic. And then you add in all the ancillary services like brush milk sharing and chiropractic care and mental health counseling and so on. So we’re very different than other organizations that are out there.
Jacob Barr :
So here’s a personal question it sounds like you’re taking on like a lot of work and then or a lot of areas of work too. How do you take care of your own personal time management and how do you sleep at night without, like, worrying and thinking about all these things?
Shawn Zierke :
Oh, I don’t worry at night I sleep great because i have a really good self strong, healthy self talk. I have a strong relationship with God and I think it’s because I’m wired as an ENTJ or in the disc I’m a DI or I don’t know whatever people look at the personality things. My husband and I have a date night every week we’ve been married 30 years. It does help that I have a nurse here to help with our son Samuel that we recently adopted. But otherwise I have 5 adult children and we take Samuel with us when we travel, so we just make it work i you know how I manage it all, Jacob. I love what I’m doing and I figured out what I love and I say no to the rest.
Jacob Barr :
That’s good. Yeah it’s interesting when you’re doing what you love, the time goes by really quick because you almost like, forget that you’re actually doing it and you’re just sort of fully connected to like what you’re actually doing and the results are phenomenal when it comes to just like output because it’s yeah, you’re just focused on doing it and loving it yep, exactly.
Shawn Zierke :
I’m excited to get back in here and, you know, edit somebody’s grant or review a policy i know it sounds boring to other people, but when you’re good at something and you love it, it’s easy to do.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So I guess the encouragement might be, yeah, I guess for Prancy clinic directors who are, who might be listening to find people who really love, you know, this idea of going full medical or growing the medical and because that might be the right person to have on your team to make this journey to, you know, consider having that more medical services, whole women health. Having someone on your team that loves it to the point where they lose track of their time or they or they don’t, you know, it feels like what they really love to do. I feel like that might be a pretty, you know, a really good prerequisite just to have someone that loves this idea. Because then all that work will become more of a joy than a burden well, the two.
Shawn Zierke :
Key factors are catch the vision and see how God uniquely equipped you to fulfill and meet the vision. Make it happen. It’s kind of an Ester moment for such a time as this you were created. And when you catch the vision of where you want to be and realize that you have the skills and attributes to make it happen, then yeah, it all fits together.
Jacob Barr :
So which states do you have any guiding star locations in Texas or California, Florida.
Shawn Zierke :
So we have Guiding star Wakota and the Twin Cities in Minneapolis in Minnesota, we have three in Iowa we have El Paso, texas. We have Guiding Star Tampa and Guiding Star Memphis, and our newest one that’s opening up is in Las Cruces, new mexico, right next door to the abortionist who ran Jackson Women’s Center, the at the heart of the Dobbs case that overturned Roe V Wade.
Jacob Barr :
Ok. Wow that’s exciting. Yeah and in Arizona we had a law from over 100 years ago get re well reinstated and now the local abortion clinics you’re sending people to either New Mexico or to California and so, yeah, having someone right next to that abortion clinic in New Mexico or all, you know, next to the abortion clinics in Mexico is such a an amazing thing because yeah, some Arizonans might be going that.
Shawn Zierke :
Direction and it’ll be guiding star center. So, total Women’s Health.
Jacob Barr :
Well thank you Sean for being on this podcast and if anyone has questions I hope you will reach out to her and yeah and just help. Yeah, just help. It feels, it feels amazing to be able to take on something really big like this, but to do it as part of a franchise model or part of a bigger team model, more so than Solo. Because yeah, this, it just feels like it’s already been trail blazed and people that come alongside today are more like trail followers or trail users more so than having the trail blaze and yeah, exactly create the trail we’ve been.
Shawn Zierke :
Doing the hard work for them, they just need to get on board.
Jacob Barr :
Yeah and then letting people take advantage of what’s already been done. It’s just simply a way of, you know, honoring the work that’s already been done and like taking advantage and like letting it. Yeah, it’s beautiful to see things get used more than once and being it’s a novel, unique new idea, it’s amazing to see it yeah grow and I’m sure it’s going to keep growing because it’s it feels like that’s the direction that our medical prancy clinic world is going, is offering more services to our clients and offering it years before they need us will hopefully make it so they don’t need us exactly.